General Issues / Questions

Salaamun alaikum, Salikah To me, Islam is a state of being and muslim describes someone who is in that state both consciously and unconsciously. Its not a proper noun and, if used that way, it would be similar to saying " I Exist".... Agreed. Al-islaam is a state of being. But i have to disagree with you on the proper noun thing. It can be a proper noun if the person actually operationalises that state. It won't be an approrpriate noun if that person treats islam like an icon (im born muslim with a muslim name and eat muslim food bla bla bla). thanks and peace

Peace all I was born and raised in a Sunni family. I speak arabic but cant read or write. We should compliment each other, tux, I can read and write Arabic but can't speak Arabic!

Andya Primanda peace to you, and to everyone. you are right, muhammad got that first. Still, RK just wanted to remind us, right? But why this has changed everything about sunnah and islam? What is the total different here? About his as the messanger is not our piority right? the main thing is we must now find the truth behind god's words, right? i just kept wondering, what will god say about what we have done after the last prophet life. do we do what he has told us? just asking for oppinion, peace towards everybody. may god bless everyone.

"They follow only a conjecture, and they do but guess" Is this supposed to be a rebuttal o some sort? roll

Peace all. Okay, idolfree...I get exactly what you're saying now. Thank you. It's only a point of communication and clarity, wakas. And my concern is not for those here, but for those who may be reading, have questions and cannot (for whatever reasons) ask them. There are also non-Muslims, who may benefit from a clearer understanding of such things, since language can sometimes be a barrier. I'm amazed at the number of people who are still ignorant about Islam, using terms like Judeao-Christian because they think we Muslims should be lumped in with the Buddhists. So if someone, out on the street, asks me why one Muslim says "Allah" while another says "the God" and yet another says "God," I'd like to be informed enough to be able to answer that question...in hopes that someone's heart may open up just enough to let a beautiful seed get planted. D

democracy does give personal liberty and freedom of thought to the individual as opposed to dictatorship where you could have your head chopped off for speaking your mind! This is true, thanks to the God, I feel free mind in France than in my native land. I think the system here is nearer to the God's system than in the muslim countries. Having lived under a oppressive government I prefer any form of "democracy" than anything else... Agree but I have my own system and I'm my own nation wink

Good evening people, I believe Mr. Bahman from 19.org will be posting here shortly... roll

IMO Al-Quran clearly states that our physical bodies will be reconstituted on Judgement Day and then we will be sent to Hell or Heaven. On this we are agreed (and thank you for the numerous ayat), since this is very clear. Moreover, the Quran explains that our bodies will bear witness to our sins, so one of the reasons for this resurrection is given. So obviously Hell or Heaven will be experienced both by the physical body and the soul. I don't think this follows. Our bodies will be reconstituted on Judgement Day, but there's no reason to assume that we will go to Heaven or Hell in physical form. Even if you do assume a physical body, there's no reason to assume that the physical laws of such places are anything like what we experience here. The evidence of transformation of the physical body into a different kind of physical body comes from the following ayat 5664 We have predetermined death for you. Nothing can stop Us, 5665 From transforming your forms, and establishing you in what you do not know. I don't think that this rules out the possibility of a non-physical existence (just the soul). Or, as I said above, the physical state might be so completely different that descriptions of Heaven would all be metaphorical. Why can we not grow spiritually in a physical body? IMO we can still grow spiritually even with a physical body esecially a "super" physical body. This is true. I guess I don't see any reason to believe it's a physical body, and it's more important to consider the state of one's soul. My sister's view on the matter (which I am not totally sure I accept) is that the damage done to one's soul that puts it in the Hell-state is so extensive, and such a setback, that essentially the only way we can comprehend it is to imagine that we are in that state forever. I disagree with the above idea of your sister too. IMO the "soul+super body" will be reverted to a clean and pure state once it has finished the "prison sentence" of Hell and then will be sent to Heaven. This is not ruled out in Al-Quran either. Can you explain why this is not ruled out? In this case, Hell would be more like the old Christian notion of Purgatory, and would not be eternal. So are you saying that Hell, a physical place, would be destroyed once everyone was done, and then they go to Heaven? (In that case, eternal would be taken to mean, "for the entire duration that Hell exists".) But the problem is that it doesn't seem like everyone would be in there for the same amount of time. Do you also then think the descriptions of Hell are literal? Is there literally fire and boiling water, etc? Personally I don't think there is, as I can't reconcile that with my conception of God. I don't see how any of that would help one's spiritual growth. It seems to be a very anthropomorphic view of God, almost likening Him to a father who punishes his child. (I don't mean to imply that this is your view, but this does seem to be a common view.) I suppose an alternative explanation would be to claim that "eternally" is used metaphorically, but this is probably stretching things if you are assuming a physical world where the notion of time is meaningful. IMHO there will not be another physical world like Earth after Hell. As I mentioned above, after going through Hell, the "souls+super bodies" will be sent to Heaven. This possibility is not ruled out in Al-Quran either. Yes, I tend to agree with you that there won't be another Earth. My sister's view on the matter (which I agree with) is that certainly it's possible that there is reincarnation, but there is absolutely no clear mention of this in the Quran anywhere (though of course there are verses that could be taken to mean this, such as 5665 I suppose). Therefore, this can't be an important point, since otherwise it the Quran would have been clearer on the matter.

Hello Zlatan, ?and these doubts concerning my actions and ways, i believe, are partialy connected to not knowing the scripture detaily?or not being able to understand it properly and thus to aplie it to my situation or circumstances of my life....actualy sometimes i have no doubts about the rightousness( or unrightheousness) of the actions and i consider them clearly wrong or unrighteous, however sometimes i do?that is, after some further study my belief or view of them change and i found them not so incorrect or perfectly normal?and then again after a passage of time the doubts about their correctness arrise? You are no different from rest of us Zlatan! So be comforted -) You are stuck on the same "Ship Of Doubt" like the rest of us! It is just that some of us have managed, through determination, study, hard work, knowledge, understanding and trust in God, to climb on to a higher deck of that ship, and therefore can see little bit further and little bit clearly of the way ahead, and as a result are able reduce our burden of doubts little bit more. Only very few among us have managed to climb on to the mast of the ship and glimpse the horizon. And even those that have managed to climbed the mast; only few have sighted "land". We tend to call them "Prophets". Therefore in my view doubts are not bad. Doubts can be healthy. Doubts prevent us from taking anything for granted. Doubts are always a prelude to better understanding of God and religion. Doubts allows us to climb on to a higher deck so that we can understand a little more of where we are headed. And if we are brave, determined and courageous and have trust in God, then we can too, can climb on to the mast and see the horizon our self and perhaps even sight ?land? too! God is just Zlatan, He is most compassionate and most merciful, he allows every individuals to have experience like the prophets so that they too can have a "certainty" like the Prophets. If you are determined and courageous you can too have this ?certainty? and find that peace you are looking for?so don't see doubt as something that is "wrong" or "sinful" but something that continually prompts you to seek a better and better understanding of the "Truth", something that urges us to climb on to a higher deck so we can see the way ahead little better? Regards, P.S. Your English is fine... -)

Yes the quotes in bold are from the bible. Where you see the word Spirit it is the hebrew word "roo'-akh" which has the same meaning as the Arabic "rooh" and when you see the word Soul it is the Hebrew word "neh'-fesh" which has the same meaning as the Arabic word "nafs". The Arabic language was derived from the hebrew language and they have the same root words. But the hebrew language also has other words that also means "Breath" and "Breathed" such as "neshamah" and "naphach" "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (naphach) into his person the breath (neshamah) of life; and man became a living soul (neh'-fesh / nafs)" All living cretures have a soul, but only Mankind has the spirit of God within them "In whose hand (Gods hands) is the soul (neh'-fesh / nafs) of every living thing, and the Spirit (roo'-akh /rooh) of all mankind" unless you want to translate Spirit (rooh) as breath in which case you would be saying that only mankind breaths and other creatures dont. From my perspective, the soul and the body are closely linked but after death, these two parts are separated. The soul is eternal in contrast with the body which is fleeting. Can we consider the soul as the energy contained in the body (matter). From your perspective What does the soul after the death? Yes the body and the soul are closely linked and seperated at death, and the spirit of God within us returns to God "Remember him-before the silver cord is severed, ... and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it" I've underlined "the silver cord" which is connected to the string theory, but will talk about that in another post. "And fear not, them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body" "And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, for she died" "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a living spirit" "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual" Our goal or aim is for our souls to become spiritual and not remain soulful (earthy and of the flesh). This is why we need to follow the spirit and not the soul. This is a learning lesson for the soul to become spiritual and one with God.

Peace all, Peace, The evildoers were enticed by the Devil to manipulate the Quran and bring about a fantastic and cleverly designed man-made Religion to name it Islam, the worst of all other idolworshipping system mankind has ever witnessed. Millions of innocent bystanders and illiterates have been/are duped into such blasphemous and hypocritical doctrine authored by pagan rituals and conjectural heresies, unauthorized by the Quran. It is mind boggling to witness this very so-called Islam bifurcate into two major sects (Sunni and Shia) and further degenerating into several byproducts beyond recognition (Salafi, Ahmedi, Hanafi, Sulemani, Wahabi, Bahaii, Dawoodi, Ismaili, etc, etc.). The clever masses have succeeded and have become the doctors and engineers of Religious Products to have accomplished their goals and being handsomely rewarded for their inventions and innovations by the mindless consumers enjoying such products, whilst the greenpies are graduating in succession on a daily basis, following the footsteps of their masters, to take over their well defined claimed territories, enhancing, nurturing and furthering the already innovated. But as these greenpies are mastering such traits, so are the genuine scientists painfully preparing and ever-ready with an antidote as ordained by GOD. Lets witness the end result. Wow Danish!!! That post was very insightful and very well put too. GOD Bless You Bro!! Peace, Damon.

I don't know a reference off the top of my head, but I know there are verses in the Koran that say you should not try to convince others about God when it is very clear that they will not listen. yes there is a verse that says like dont waste your time on those who dont want to listen . so if it becomes clear that they dont want to listen we leave them . yes .

Peace Idris i was actually excited that Kanye would be on all or most of it, I didn't enjoy the production on Electric Circus, I liked the overall production except for Come Close, my CD was missing one track strangly S. It's a real great album, but if you'r listening to One Day It'll All Make Sense then smoothly transfer to Like Water for Choclate you'll probally spill your water and chocolate when you reach Electric Circus because it's such a drastic detour from Common's previous paths, but he ain't switch over, he just made his own lane. It was definitely unexpected, so the album was terrible first hand when I was expecting ol common. the thing is that Kanye doesn't do much of that enoying sped up vocal sampling on his production as he usually does on the album (based on the bootleg), only had one or two beats like that I'm more concerned that Kanye will do a terrible chorus! evil Retrospect for Life is one of my favorites, I Used To Love H.E.R., Its Your World (from the new album, instant classic to me), Respiration (though he only had one verse on it, it was with Black Star), etc. Retrospect had a great video, I love the colours they blend with the song, the whole vibe from that era was so very soothing. I play I Used to Love H.E.R to many times, I used to like it alot, still classic but not for everyday use. I don't recall how Respiration sounds but Thieve's In The Night is a classic. peace,

LOL nafisa!! that website can give me hours of fun

Peace. Peace, Peace Natu, What are your views on this? I still think that there is a distinct difference between God's creations and what 'our hands bring forth'. Absolutely. There's no comparison between a creation of a fly (GOD made) vis-a-vis a computer (man-made). Just now I was flicking through randomly and I spotted the following verses 1680 And God has made your homes a habitat, and He made for you from the hides of the livestock shelter which you find light for travel and when you stay, and from its wool, fur, and hair you make furnishings and goods, for a while. 1681 And God has made for you shade from what He created, and He made from the mountains a refuge for you, and He made for you garments which protect you from the heat, and garments which protect you from attack. It is such that He completes His blessing upon you, that you may surrender. So it is clear that God himself says that he creates things that we create, things like clothing. So how can we say that he hasn't created computers - we have been used as tools in their creation - therfore,... (Wait for it)... COMPUTERS ARE CREATURES! (Apologies, I couldn't resist).

The "oration" part of the PROCESS is not about "orating" a physical book, it is about speaking the Truths about the Universe (Al Kitaab). Idolfree - that is heavy stuff! I was becoming convinced of the argument about Orations, but I was a bit uneasy about it just being something ritulistic like Orating the Quran. But after this concept of it being a process, I think you've dug into great explanation of salar. And this concept of contemplating the universe - I was left speechles! The universe is the argument I put forward to myself to prove that God exists, and what better thing to do morning BTW would you say that participation on free-minds forum could be classed as Oration? Becuase I find it quite beneficial to me, it somehow keeps me connected, to God, especially living in an area where there isn't much monotheism in the blur of mullahs blaring their falsehood out all over the place. Ooohhh keep a beard and you won't burn... GET OUT! This is why I love free-minds so much. Thanks Idolfree.

Peace be upon you all, I am not sure I am following the thread , but here goes. The word "muslim" is a desciption, not a title. It describes one who is PEACEFUL and SUBMITS to Universal Law(God's Will). Regarding being born "muslim", I am not sure about that. Children are controlled by the "animal" that we are to transcend in Life. Crying for everything is not spiritual growth, it is emotionality. Peeing on yourself is not healthy. Further, the God states in this reading that the Human was created WEAK. Is weakness part of the desciption of "muslim"? I will stop here in case I have not understood the direction of this thread.

peace All, I have debated on other forums. My experience has been its not effective in terms of gaining "reverts" (thats not why I did it, I'm just making the point). The desire to learn/inquire for oneself must be there. However, it has been fruitful in terms of inviting those more moderate / free-thinking individuals to this forum to participate. It is also good to let the traditional Muslims know that an alternative is out there. Wakas

tanveermd wrote I meditate, contemplate and reflect.... Continue with that, you are on the right track... How come you did not quote the whole sentence?. For your convenience I will quote my whole sentence so you can read it fully again I meditate, contemplate and reflect how The God told me to (through His Word) and I have my religious experiences when I serve The God the way He told me to. The God has already told me the perfect way to meditate in Al-Quran through Aqeemoo Al-Salat. (You should check it out too !) If you use your God given reason, intuition and imagination to understand and reflect on the Word of The God and follow it then you will be on the right track.....

tux, i never saw that movie... heard it was good. i need to see the aviator too- that one's supposed to have a lot of ocd in it.