Archeology & History

Emre has already addressed the broader moral issue. Thank you for that. The only point I would add is that the Quran says Ibrahim saw a dream and later God tells him: “You have fulfilled the vision.” While It never directly says in the narrator’s own words, “We commanded you to kill your son.” So perhaps the question is whether the test was a literal divine command to kill, or Ibrahim’s understanding of the vision and his willingness to submit. And as further food for thought: the Quran says that “Allah does not command immorality” (7:28) and forbids taking a protected life without right (17:33). So would God temporarily command the killing of an innocent person merely as a test??

Turkic kurgans dating back to around 3500 BC were found in Istanbul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CuATeE8xxY Also; after Türkiye and Kazakhstan, thousands-of-years-old Turkic kurgans continue to be discovered in Kyrgyzstan as well: https://x.com/ArkeolojiveTurk/status/2052029708263424414?fbclid= Peace

Peace Fusion and good logic! Thank you for your thoughtful replies. I really appreciate the insights of both of you. For a believer, the Qur'an is the red thread that runs through all learning. This red thread consists of reading and studying the Scripture of the Lord, and of living and sharing its message with others for the sake of one's faith and ultimate destiny. It must come first and shape how one understands everything else. Other subjects such as science, history, archaeology, philosophy, and more have value, but only when they are woven into this red thread. They are not "ends" in themselves, but "means" that find their proper purpose when they illuminate, support, and enrich one's understanding of God's Word. If this red thread is neglected, what one learns as a believer loses its fullest meaning, and one's faith, though not lost, is left without proper guidance and is significantly weakened.

Salaam all, I’ve been trying to identify the Quran’s chronology of prophets recently, and am troubled by the disconnect from the archaeological record. Quranic Timeline Surah 7 – Al-A’raf In 7.59-103 past prophets are named in succession: Noah > ‘Ad (Hud) > Thamud (Salih) > Lot > Midian (Shu’ayb) > and Moses. Verse 69, Hud addresses Ad: “and remember when He made you successors to the people of Noah.” And in verse 74, Salih addresses Thamud: “and remember when He made you successors to the people of 'Ad.” This indicates a clear order of succession: Noah > Ad > Thamud Then there’s a short gap from verse 93 to 103, after which it says: “Then after them We sent Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh”. Ie: Moses came after these other prophets Surah 9 – Al-Bara’ah In 9.70 past prophets/communities are listed again: Noah > Ad > Thamud > Ibrahim > Madyan and 'the overthrown cities' in plural Surah 11 – Hud In 11:25-99 the past prophets are listed again. Noah > Ad > Thamud > Ibrahim > Lot > Madian & Thamud mentioned together In this case, Moses bookends the prophets, with a mention at the beginning of the sequence (11:17) and at the end (11:96) In 11:89 Shu’ayb tells the people of Madian “do not let not your hatred towards me incriminate you that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh”. So Madian is clearly after Noah > Ad > Thamud. So the Quranic timeline seems to be: Noah > Ad > Thamud > Ibrahim > Lot > Midian > Moses Archaeological Record As I mentioned in another post, recent archaeological evidence has placed ‘Ad in the Wadi Rum region of southern Jordan. They discovered a plaque in the temple of Allat which mentions both Iram and the tribe of ‘Ad. There have been other inscriptions of Ad and Iram in that area, but never both in a single inscription. It is dated to the 1st century CE. The last inscription discovered near Jabal Ramm in Jordan that mentions Iram is from the 4th century CE! That's 300 years before Prophet Muhammad. Thamud are mentioned many times throughout history, beginning in the 8th century BCE as fighting the Assyrians. The Assyrians deport them to Palestine, as forced deportations were a common practice of the Assyrians. They are then identified repeatedly as living in the northwest corner of Saudi Arabia, near Aqaba in Jordan. The Ruwafa temple 160-200 CE in northwest Saudi Arabia is a temple of the god ‘lh built by Thamud. Then there is an inscription in Saudi from the 4th century CE (ie. around 300 years before Islam), that mentions a war between the tribes of Gshm and Thamud. After this they disappear from the historical record and seem to get subsumed by the Roman province of Arabia, as we only find Byzantine military units in Egypt and Palestine in the 5th c. CE named after them. The issue here is that Judaism precedes all of these in the archaeological record, whereas the Quran places Moses after them. The origin of the ancient Israelites in the archaeological record go back to around 1200 BCE. However, in Yonatan Adler's, "The Origins of Judaism: An Archaeological-Historical Reappraisal, he argues that there is no evidence prior to the mid 2nd century BCE of anyone knowing or keeping the laws of the Torah - Terminus ante quem of the practice of Judaism - the earliest evidence we have goes back to the middle of the 2nd century and no earlier. So it’s problematic that we have inscriptions on ruins in Jordan and Saudi dating to the 1st and 2nd centuries after Christianity, clearly referring to Iram and Ad. Not sure how to resolve this issue. What are your thoughts? I certainly haven’t listed all Quranic references to these prophets, just ones I’ve stumbled on recently. Is there any evidence of Moses preceding Ad and Thamud? The closest I've found is 2:87, where it says that God sent many messengers after Moses

@Ronin Thanks Ronin. Not familiar with Al-Ruba’is work, but I am familiar with Salibi. Unfortunately he has been widely criticized and disparaged by other historians. Also I think there is so much evidence that points to a northern Arabian / southern Jordanian / Palestinian nexus for all the events of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, as opposed to a southern Arabian origin.

Aleviyah from Turkey , 1vNsu67zOgk M1OfyPvEA5A

gkpGBi4bE6w idim I was a Jacob Kendi halimda yâr yâr yâr In my own state, my darling Ben bir Yakup idim I was a Jacob Kendi halimda yâr yâr yâr In my own state, my darling Mevla'mın kelamı vardı dilimde I had the word of my God on my tongue Mevla'mın kelamı vardı dilimde I had the word of my God on my tongue Kaybettim Yusuf'u I lost Yusuf Kenan ilinde yâr yâr yâr In the land of Canaan, my darling Kaybettim Yusuf'u I lost Yusuf Kenan ilinde yâr yâr yâr In the land of Canaan, my darling Ağlar Yakup ağlar Yusuf'um diye Jacob weeps, he weeps for Yusuf Gitti de gelmedi vah yavrum diye He went and never returned, oh my dear child Ağlar Yakup ağlar Yusuf'um diye Jacob weeps, he weeps for Yusuf Gitti de gelmedi vah yavrum diye He went and never returned, oh my dear child Bir bezirgân geldi üç aylık yoldan yâr yâr yâr A merchant came from a three-month journey Bir bezirgân geldi üç aylık yoldan yâr yâr yâr A merchant came from a three-month journey Çıkardı Yusuf'u sevinçle kuyudan He brought Yusuf out of the well with joy Çıkardı Yusuf'u sevinçle kuyudan He brought Yusuf out of the well with joy Keremkâri kıldı Mısır'a Sultan yâr yâr yâr He made him a vizier in Egypt, my darling Keremkâri kıldı Mısır'a Sultan yâr yâr yâr He made him a vizier in Egypt, my darling Ağlar Yakup ağlar Yusuf'um diye Jacob weeps, he weeps for Yusuf Gitti de gelmedi vah yavrum diye He went and never returned, oh my dear child Ağlar Yakup ağlar Yusuf'um diye Jacob weeps, he weeps for Yusuf Gitti de gelmedi vah yavrum diye He went and never returned, oh my dear child

If you look at older maps you will see lots kabah in the world, means house of god or gods before the Islam. Also medina means city , you can find more medinas , probably Mecca is a willage in my opinion. Hebrew word metgeh means bridle control animals etc. Maybe it can be thinking. Proverbs 26/3. Metgeh use phrases Means whip the horse, bridle to ass Psalm 32/9 with bridle and halter 2 Samuel 8/1 authority of the mother city. All use phrases.

Smithsonian is denies because of hoax. There is no archeology evidence. https//www.shakaguide.com/article/grand-canyon/egyptian-artifacts-in-the-grand-canyon This area usually mitology tell us Hopi’s area.

Hello, how about to dive into the world of business and profits? Presenting the brand-new game, Musk Empire! In Musk Empire, you'll have the chance to build and grow your business empire, choosing from various upgrades that maximize your hourly profits. Eventually, exchange your in-game profits on a special exchange for real money. Yes, you read that right – real money you can spend however you like. And the best part? There's absolutely no in-game donation. It's all about strategy. Get started and transform your virtual wealth into real rewards. Start your empire today and experience the thrill of Musk Empire! join here

It's important to approach ICOs (Initial Coin Offerings) with caution, especially considering the history of volatility and potential scams in the crypto space. While ICOs can offer exciting investment opportunities and the potential for significant returns, it's crucial to thoroughly research the project, the team behind it, and their roadmap. Ensure that the ico crypto you're considering complies with relevant regulations and has a solid, transparent whitepaper. Remember, the adage "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" holds particularly true in the world of cryptocurrencies. Stay informed and invest wisely!

Jerusalem = City of Peace Al-Quds = The Holy The name has became an oxymoron. For many centuries, the place has been the cause of many crusades and wars, where human kill another human. If there's any significance to the tales related to the place; is that it has become a 'bad example'. Do not do what those people did over there, treat them as a bad example. Yet dig further on the why, on the what drove human to kill another human, yet treat it as lesson learned to be avoided elsewhere. "Brother will kill brother, spilling blood across the land, killing for religion, something I don't understand!" -- Holy Wars, Megadeth

DHUL QARNAYN X MUSA IBN IMRAN Dhul-Qarnayn was a Yemeni King. The strongest evidence showing that He was from Yemen is the fact that names starting with Dhi and Dhu are common in Yemen. There were kings of Yemen called “Dhu Nuwas a Jew, Dhul-Nun, Dhul-Manar, Dhul-Yazan”. Dhul-Qarnayn is Yemeni as told in the story, and these are some of his successors. (https//twitter.com/alrjl_alhkym/status/1533995485488467969) His alleged son, "Dhu'l Manar Abrahah", is coincidentally remembered as a ancient Yemeni King.(https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhu%27l_Manar_Abrahah) The phenomenon of men with horns was and is still present in Yemen. Musa ibn Imran for example is said to have been exposed to radiation (biblical shining face) after he came down from Mount Sinai in Yemen. The Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible translation of Exodus 3429 says “When Moses came down from the mount Sinai, he held the two tables of the testimony, and he knew not that his face was horned from the conversation of the Lord” I am not a doctor but I diagnose Musa ibn Imran with Cutaneous horns. Causes of cutaneous horns The cause of cutaneous horns is still unknown, but it is believed that exposure to radiation can trigger the condition. This is evidenced by a higher rate of cases occurring on the face and hands, areas that are often exposed to sunlight. Other cases have reported cutaneous horns arising from burn scars. Does this sound familiar to you? https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943992389490593792/998296165227442206/unknown.png Also worth noting that the word translated as "horned" is "qaran" (cf. Dhul-Qarnayn) A related word, qeren, means “horns,” as it refers to something that “projected outward” as horns do. https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943992389490593792/998296233753976922/unknown.png What difference it makes be him Yemen or Egyptian or phalastinian Syrian... His story is important... By the Quran is in Arabic but God never changes names of people, place, books, deities etc according language that's so obvious within Quran... If the name of Musa is what is said in Quran then it's his name.. If Rome is what God says then it is.. If Misr or Midyan ..Qarun or Zaid .. Tora or Injeel what ever... Except God's names.. Coz God has many a names.. Probably that suits according to language of those revelations revealed.. That's undeniable... So Zhi AlQarnain is his name.. Nothing else... Where ever it matches for such anceing names he might have been from there as assumptions.. If Qarnain is an Arabic dual word . Most probably he was an Arab.. So Yemen is also vastly spoken Arabic since ancient time.. God never calls anyone unless it is his or her name or a name his or her society society call .(1886)... Society may call a person not in his real name but according his quality or identity or whatever... So more evidence according the name he must have been an Arabic sure... Buy from where is a mystry.. Don't speculate.. That's not worthy... God has not given any clue in Quran.. Thank you...

"Pharaoh" (fir'awn) for Amenhotep IV (Akhanaton) is not just "the earliest instance used" for a ruler in Egypt, but the only one, since fir'awn was the only one person - Akhanaton. He was no "monotheist", but tyrant and kaafir, oppressor of el-Mesjid-ul-Haraam and sun-worshiper.

JSTOR and Academia.edu has many articles on the study of pre-Islamic poetry, maybe you can find something there.

Peace.. Unfortunately I have no contact with the person I have mentioned above. He doesn't seems interested in this forum anymore.. Anyhow when I read the below verse a strong evidence for myself I feel.. 7137 "And We caused the people who had been oppressed to inherit the eastern regions of the land and the western ones, which We had blessed. And the good word of your Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel because of what they had patiently endured. And We DESTROYED that Pharaoh and his people were producing and what they had been BUILDING." according to above verse Allah promises that He destroyed what Pharough built.. If pyramids were in fact built by pharou how come it remains still? Meanwhile in verse 2938-39 God says a different story.. It says Dwellings remaining... Do you see my point fellow believers..?

Wowee. Thank you wakas. Thats enough material to last me more than a year, lol. What I've read and heard from Hoyland is great work, thanks for that link as well. JazakAllah Khair.

Salam jkhan, Peace brother Tilihiwa... I think your research is much convinced to me... needless to ensure others, let them understand if they want to... yes understood. I realized that it was not my responsibility to convince others. Just trying to share what I think. Peace

Peace tutti-frutti. Do not worry if you disagree with others or not understand their view/s. What is important is to go with your own intuition/understanding. Everyone has questions and false understanding to sort out. Confirmation bias gets into the mix of researching properly. Who among us think they have all the answers? Should our aim and intention be other than to search for the truth? What use is ramming our truth down people s throats serve? Should we force our views to inflate our ego and boast? Having the truth is personal and f to use for our own interest ,not to" beat "others with it! We are all on a journey of investigation , it is better to concern ourselves with our own questions and issues . If someone is offering views,challenges,good research/conclusions or even asking the right questions,then they should humbly accept that folks can use it as they see fit and hope that some folks will benefit from it, others won t and some may ignore it altogether. Our duty of searching is to ourselves ,do not worry brother as long as you start on the straight path-GOOD deeds /good morals- the rest is your own journey independent of anyone else and their views/conclusions/issues,only dependent on GOD Alone. Go your own pace Relax and keep searching at your own pace. GOD bless you. Peace.

Peace, Part 2 If you read the verses in Al Quran, you can feel that Dzulkarnain was travelling alone without an army. Did he realy see the sun was setting in a black muddy spring water? Lets examine this verses 1885 So he travelled a course 1886 until he reached the setting ˹point˺ of the sun, which appeared to him to be setting in a spring of murky water, where he found some people. We said, “O Ⱬul-Qarnain! Either punish them or treat them kindly.” The above verses tells us what had happened to him Dzulkarnain was travelling to the west, toward the sun set With his ability to teleport himself, travelling from one point of destination to another point of destination in spreading god messages to the west. he finally he ended up and found himsellf submerged in black muddy spring water ( refer to other translation ). Its not the sun that setting in the black muddy spring water but it was him when he found himself submerged in a black muddy spring water. He found also, there were few people near him in the black muddy spring water. May be to their belief the mud has superstitious power to cure or heal deseases or illness or even for the beauty and staying young. They were performing shirks to god by worship and believing the black mud has power over their life. 1887 He responded, “Whoever does wrong will be punished by us, then will be returned to their Lord, Who will punish them with a horrible torment. 1888 As for those who believe and do good, they will have the finest reward, and we will assign them easy commands.” Now the next task for Dzulkarnain was to ensure these people are back to worship to the only god, a one god. Example Jumper 2008 https//youtu.be/eLqE8rqNPbk submerged in the river https//images.app.goo.gl/dry2ZzSAd4p41b879 Location Where is this place could be? A possible place could be at Dead Sea. A place where a black mud believed to have magic in curing illness. http//dead-sea.net/the-dead-sea/cleopatra-and-the-dead-sea/