What is the nature of God?

Peace. The concept of a "personal god" has always perplexed me. Even if we come to the conclusion that a god exists, the idea of a personal ones seems to be in question, especially when we consider all of the 'evil' that happens throughout the world. A personal god only exists within the scope of (1) being similar to humans or possessing human qualities and attributes, (2) communicating specifically with humans, or (3) responding to human requests, in the forms of prayers and appeals. As we know, the Islamic (e.g. Judeo-Christian) god ALLAH fits into ALL three of these factors He possesses human-like characteristics and attributes - e.g. merciful, forgiving, just, wise, powerful, compassionate, etc. He communicates with humans - e.g. provides 'inspiration', writes books (Torah, Injiyl, Koran, etc.), sends prophets, etc. He responds to human requests - e.g. answers prayers, performs miracles for the sake of humans, etc. If we characterize ALLAH (God) as impersonal, though, such as equating him with the Universe or nature (or energy), then the concept of 'evil' seems a lot more rational and explainable. The scientific proposition regarding the celestial bodies, and even human beings, being formed naturally seems a lot more valid, as does the concept of the Universe self-generating and being self-sustaining. It all depends on how you look at things. Personally, the existence of an impersonal god (if we choose to assign the word "god" to this figure or force) seems a lot more plausible than the existence of a personal one. Peace, Ahmad I am also as sceptical as how you expressed in this quote.

Salaam, It was just in a demonstrative purpose I gave that example to show that God only show up as an illusive projection in this "game" world. It is clear that God does not need to run some command but can just say "be" and He emerges in the world. God bless you

The time part is the key. God sees all one does, but one has the free will to act as they please yet God knows in advance how things will play out (as in, they are pre-determined). For us, our choices make consequences for us and everything around us but God is outside of the picture and doesn't follow time in our world. It's a strange thing to think about... I hope I have the right idea but it sure can be complicated.

Salam, One of Allah's attributes is that He is "All Encompassing". Could this not allude to that prior to creation He was also All Encompassing? The fact that Allah exists prior to the initiation of creation does not mean nothing else existed. It means that Allah exists and encompassed all things (space, time, etc...) even before creation. Anyways, it is interesting to philosophize these points, however, my true opinion is that we will/can never truly understand Allah or His Will, only submit to it.

I like the points made. I don't care who said it. ) Ironically he used word God in many times, like "God does not play dice". Peace Sonny, That is ironic. God still plays an important part in our language and lexicon it seems, even without apparent belief.

Peace, Man of Faith. Just for your information, some of the "gods" you mentioned is the same God, just different names, like YHWA and Ahura Mazda and Jesus is not a God, just a poor soul who obtained God status by "mistake". Not necessarily. The god Ahura Mazda is actually recognized as a dualistic god. He's not 'supreme', because there is another 'evil' god (Ahriman) who is equal to him, and the two gods are 'battling' for our salvation. This is vastly different from the concepts presented concerning Allah and Yahweh. Also, Yahweh is a cruel and dictatorial god, unlike Allah, who is merciful and kind. And, of course, Jesus was not a god at all; he was merely elevated to this position by those who followed him. If there are "apparent" polytheism it could be because they focus on different attributes of the one God. I absolutely agree with you, sir! I was only identifying them separately due to the modern renditions and perceptions of them. People often view them as separate beings, and this is why I classified them as such. In my personal view, however, they are probably separate attributes of the one (universal) deity. Peace, Ahmad

Thank you so much, may Allah reward you all, your posts here are just what I needed.

Peace, LeBelysa. Have you read the Kybalion? I think you'll find it quite interesting. I hadn't noticed this post previously, but, though short, it was a very good one. The Kybalion is a phenomenal book, and it goes into this topic very thoroughly, if people can grasp the meanings projected by it... Peace, Ahmad

I want to apologize for stirring everyone up with this topic. I did want to provoke thought, but I didn't want people bickering Peace be upon you, I wish you the best on your journey towards personal enlightenment, and again I apologize for instigating any animosity that my post has initiated. Peace zulf81, Welcome back! Don't worry about the differences of opinion as they are normal and should be used as source for growth. Trust God

Im sure that God only controls the laws of the universe. For example, If you pull a trigger on a gun and it is pointed at someone, you will injure or kill that person. God in this case, controls the law that pulling the trigger of a gun will fire a bullet. Its your choice of whether to point that gun at another human being and intend to kill him. If you do make this choice, you will have sinned.

Bad? Who says death and suffering is bad in itself? Perhaps they are tools for our learning. Allah says he will test us through loss of wealth and lives. We are very quick to decide what is good and bad, and then we define God and reality, and the rationality and probability of God's existence based on our first decisions and definitions of good and bad. If this life is just a play and a dream then why is death something bad? Doesn't Allah ask rhetorically in AQ that if we are so sure about ourselves and salvation, then we should wish for death. Purpose and suffering This natural world is what it is. It's neither good nor bad. When something happens to us, either we think it is useless, OR we see that it can serve a purpose. Something happening to us can help us move closer toward Allah, or it can be an excuse for us to move deeper into rejection (resistance to reality), or we'll just keep straying around. It is OUR choice. WE react. Circumstances are neutral, and our reaction to them give us an experience of suffering or joy. We have to decide whether we think Allah and life is unfair, or not. If Allah and life is not unfair in our mind, then we realize that anything that happens to us is an opportunity to ponder reality and an opening for us to grow. WE decide what to do. Allah gives us opportunity after opportunity. We'll always reap what we sow, but we are not stuck... all it takes to turn around the ship is to change our thinking, intention and perspective. This is where it starts. We should understand WHY and HOW things happen, and not only focus on WHAT happens. We we experience pain and suffering, is that a sign that God is unfair, or that God doesn't exist? What sort of logic is that? Why do we think that we are some princesses that should be pampered and only have joy? What a delusion and failure to see the purpose of life. Are things only ok and good if there is no pain? How simplistic! If suffering happens to us, it is of-course painful, but is it BAD? Isn't 'bad' only that which leads away from truth, reality and Allah? And that which determines if it leads TO Allah or FROM Allah, is us. We are not victims of life. If we think so, it means that we don't understand life and it's purpose. But, what about rape victims and child abuse... we'll, there are plenty of people who have suffered these nasty crimes, and have come out stronger with a power and passion to help other deal with unpleasant experiences. Does the existence of e.g. rape and child abuse naturally translate as 'there is no God', or 'God is unfair'? Well, it depends on how we see it, and it's not an easy thing, but can we use our emotional experiences as a ground to determine whether "God" exists or not? Who says life was supposed to be easy? Our deluded mind and ego did. Life is obviously NOT easy. There's no doubt about that. So, our mind and ego has already decided upon what reality and life SHOULD be like. Is it reasonable? Our minds can not even let us communicate in a kind and civilized manner in forums on internet... so how can we trust our ego to determine the existence of Allah? As if Allah is some external thing, something separate that may or may not exist, some component. I prefer to see it like this Does Allah exist? I think, therefor Allah must exist. Or, I exist, therefore Allah must exist. It's not more difficult than that. It's a matter of definition. Is Allah a separate thing, or is everything/creation a result of Allah?.. by definition. Seeing the light beam, should we engage in intellectual debates on whether or not there is a light source, or should we realize that the beam by natural necessity exists because of a source. Is a light beam without a light source reasonable, logical, scientific and realistic? Atheists seem think so. Images Actually, it all boils down to our image of God. It is actually this image that we accept or reject. That's why we should desperately desire, crave and strive for open 'eyes' and minds that can let us see reality and truth more and more. We wouldn't want to make the mistake of rejecting God on the basis of a faulty image of God that one rightly would reject. It's wise not to rush to conclusions. It's wise to be soft and open, not hard and fast, so we can let the light of reality trickle in, drop by drop, slowly and steadily breaking off the hardened and rock-like resistance and blindness from our hearts and minds. An attitude of acceptance and salam will be necessary. Work Opening our eyes is a long and tedious process. We are never 'done'. If we think we are done, and know it all, then we are just fooling ourselves. We have to work on it. We need to make this our number one aim and direction in life. Why else are we in this world, if not to get to know Allah and reality, to work our way home. Is there some other purpose? If we don't help ourselves first, how can we be useful instruments of help to others? This physical world won't matter a sh*t in the end. It'll all perish. What's left? Our growth and progress towards Allah will be left. That's all we'll ever have. Perhaps I drifted off-topic.. Peace! Peace, peace bravo This is perfect, and beautiful, and truly correct IMO. Great job! ;D

May peace be upon you all here, Interesting question, but WHAT IS SCIENCE? (CAPS simply for emphasis.) Some info here • http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science • http//undsci.berkeley.edu/article/whatisscience_01 • http//www.sciencecouncil.org/definition So now, here are the questions a. Aren't there any thesis in the Q, especially on the existence of God? b. Haven't they been scientifically explained in the Q? May God guide us all correctly. Cheers! Mohammed Noh

Peace, good logic. The shahaada (testimony) must be given in the Arabic language, as if God only understands this language. The salaat (connection/prayer) must be recited in Arabic, advocating a national or cultural religion. The zakaat (tax?) must be paid according to an Arabized system of Islamic institution, not a global one. The siyyaam (abstanation) must be taken during the Arabic month of ramadhaan, based on an Arabized calendar. The hajj (feast/pilgrimage) is established in the national country of Arabia. In other words, Islam has been converted into a national religion, with a national god - not a universal one. And, from a henotheistic standpoint, he can be seen as being greater than the gods of other (non-Arabic) nations; he's not necessarily the only god in the universe, and he may not even be the only god under his regional jurisdiction. He's simply the highest (greatest) one. Peace, Ahmad Peace Bro Ahmad Bilal It is truely correct to say that like Judaism Islam also has been converted into a man made religion or so called national religion..... but that is the fault of the wicked men....who have traded the scripture for anything..... But I am not quite sure about there being no proof of God's existence......the Quran 1.A Scientific Miracle 2.A Mathematically Impossible to Imitate Book And the divine Creation...all are proof enough.... So what do you think!!!! The Lord tells us not to believe anything without a proof andgives amples of proofs in the Holy Book...... Please let me know ur views...... Peace Harun

Peace, answerseeker. The quoted bolded part brought to mind a new question for me. Unless evil existed before, how did the "angels" know that he who was being created would spread corruption and shed blood? In many circles of those around quran, it is generally understood or sometimes stated that satan became evil when he rejected the creation of man and bowing to him, and that this is the first instance of evil in existence. But obviously the "angels" were already aware of such a thing as evil as evidenced by the question above that is quoted in bold. So who, before man was created, was spreading corruption and shedding blood? Does anyone have any opinion, infomation or reference from quran for this? There's no passage in the Qur'aan that justifies this position. However, there are passages in other writings, such as the Judaic Mishna, that promote the idea that modern humans weren't the first set of humans (as we understand them) created by God. This is also a concept promoted by various Christian groups, who proclaim the ideology concerning a pre-Adamic race of people who were eliminated by God - thus the statement in Genesis 128 instructing them to "replenish" (or RE-fill) the Earth. Peace, Ahmad

Peace Zulf, Thank you for your help. Here is the translation provided on SOL website Surah 1143 A deity for adoration and worship is the mental confusion. For this translation to be correct grammatically, it has to be written in Arabic as in order to be a correct nominal sentence ( ), as the first noun should be definite. All the chapter is very poorly translated, full of grammatical and language errors. I don't have the time to go through all of them. I pity all those that are following blindly this kind of nonsense; without having the ability to verify the Arabic by themselves, or the humility to cross-reference with other translations or verses from the same translation to see by themselves the many contradictions. Kaiokenred, I was not visiting this forum often. Even when I do it is only in Quranic section. Critique is correct on technical basis. I did this Sura and lot others a while ago. Since then my understanding of language has improved a lot. I am retranslating all. However, time is always scarce. Surah 1143 This is a Murrakab (compound). The first noun in this kind of nominal compounds by rule can not be written with "Al" the definite article. However, if second noun is definite noun, first one is supposed to be definite as well. So let me correct myself and this verse in public view and domain. 1143 The illah/god/deity for worship is the cause for the state of commotion. Please note I am using meaning of "Naas" as "the state of commotion", instead of confusion. This is the real meaning of the root "Noon-Waw-Siin". It does include confusion as well but much more comprehensive concept. Regards, and sorry for getting so late to it.

Hello @ Bilal, As I said earlier, I am not into philosophy or intellectual speculations. God created Iblees as well, so of course God is the creator of both good and bad which are a dichotomy only for the feeble human mind, but not in relativity-driven objective reality which we cannot perceive, because a human simply doesn't have enough neurons to do that, same as a monkey has not sufficient neurons to play chess! Don't you see that there is God even at the bottom of the devil's heart? Well, that's for sure God is running everything! Hell is not created yet, but disbelievers will go there by their own choice, they are just choosing to do so. Hell is a sort of metaphor, as well as Paradise is, and you cannot force anyone into the Paradise, can you? The whole topic is rather simple, isn't it one is either a believer or a disbeliever! I simply cannot understand why fuss so much about it all?

Ah, that would be an explanation. That means I did not register your qualification and restriction. Wow! Impressive. You are the first Muslim I know to talk like that. But that leaves me even more surprised by your statements concerning this Ghulam Ahmed Parwez. Haha, understood and accepted. Pity, I was not looking for a general definition, I have an internet connection and Google, so I can do that myself. No, I was hoping for YOUR understanding. No, the scientific method does not apply to the super-natural. Gotcha, quite straightforward. Thank you. I don't really believe in the supernatural, if God exists he exists, if he doesn't he doesn't. We have to have a controlled definition, in order to have a constructive discussion, so I do believe that the dictionary definition is an appropriate definition. Good talk, thanks for helping me articulate my point a little more.

Thank your for taking time, and your detailed reply. I hope I shall not disappoint you too much when I now will only respond but briefly to your post. We shall hopefully exchange ideas again at a later time here on the forum. x. I can fully understand and relate to your apprehensions. Reading what you wrote I somehow doubt it. I can see you gave it thought and are trying to get your head around it, but is it really possible to understand another person's emotional motives? True as you hint at. One cannot understand another person's emotional motives. xii. Experience gives faith. It's the same thing. But if the word 'faith' carries negative connotations for you, then 'experience' is better. Blind faith is however undoubtedly madness. Experience is the opposite of faith. Now you are saying they are different, when earlier you said they are the same??? What is the difference between "faith" and "blind faith"? It's just a use of words. I guess you equate 'faith' and 'blind faith', and in that case, using your definition of 'faith', then I am too against having faith... because it is blind. Sometimes people make 'faith' mean 'trust', and then the word gets another meaning. Also, 'faith' can mean 'certainty' or 'to know for sure through experience'. I guess we just have to be sure what meaning we give the word faith... we should know for our own sake and for other's sake when communicating. So, I'm all for experience, but not faith (the blind one). Peace, and kind regards!

Peace ) "...and is established on the throne OF HIS ALMIGHTINESS" (other translations "then assumed all authority" "...the throne of supremacy and dominion and of grace and mercy&quot Fits the theory "I think the "throne" is a metaphor for sovereignty" "His is the dominion over the heavens and the earth"

Please remember, you are a limited being trying to understand an unlimited being. You won't be able to grasp the full nature of God. When I read what you write, it's as if you have separated God from his creations. And then, you write as if God is subject to the laws of this universe, world, creation, dimension, etc. But God is the one who created all these things. When I choose to lift my arm up, did I lift it up or did God do it for me? For me, the answer is God. Everything belongs to God; the world, the universe, me and and my body. The only thing that God gave to me, that is truly mine is the decisions I make. But it is God who causes those decisions to become. I chose to lift my arm, but God is the one who caused the thoughts in my brain to change into an electric signal. God is the one who caused the electric signal to pass through my nervous system and trigger the right muscles. And God is the one that caused my arm to do what I want my arm to do. We know all these things happen technically, but we still don't fully understand it. So when God says that He increased their disease, then YES, He increased their disease but they chose for it to increase. Because God says in the Qur'an that He will not change our situation unless we DECIDE to change our situation first. Sorry, can't remember what ayat and surah but I've read it quite a number of times. Maybe somebody would be so kind as to post it for me? But when I read this ayat, what God is telling me is to take responsibility and stop blaming others and most of all, stop blaming God. Because God is the one that created time and all the laws of physics, chemistry and biology that exists within our time. Maybe God is constantly creating time. Who knows. So all that exists within time is God's creation and since God created gravity, it's stupid of someone to blame God for killing the person who decided to walk off the top of a building. That person made the decision. Maybe the person knew what he or she was doing doing or maybe not but that person made the decision. This includes even if the decision was made for that person by others. Now you may say that that means God also created our decisions. But this is a limited understanding of an unlimited being. Because I ask if God can create a universe, dimension or reality, etc where we, as human beings, can own our own decisions? And my answer is yes. God can do anything. And I happen to believe that this is the type of reality we're living in; where God controls everything and yet we are still responsible for our own thoughts, decisions and actions. wow you found so nice words to explain it! sun