If "Only Allah", then "Allah Alone" is our watchword

JavaLatte

You may be interested in these posts if you're curious about the financial aspect

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605479.msg330853#msg330853

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605427.msg331173#msg331173

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605427.msg331166#msg331166

Anyone other than the dummy accounts can see exactly what's going on here.

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drfazl

Jinn of Fire And Man of Mud The Technologies Fire And Mud

On the day when He shall muster them all together 'Company of jinn, you have made much of mankind.' Then their friends among mankind will say, 'Our Lord, we have profited each of the other, and we have reached the term determined by Thee for us. He will say 'The Fire is your lodging, therein to dwell forever' - except as God will; surely thy Lord is All-wise, All-knowing.

FreedomStands

So, that's what you think of me?

I tell you, I'm not here with the purpose to "expel" you.

Of course I like if you stop from making trustless writings in here, but I'm not eager to stop you (whether you believe me or not - I don't care).

I need to earn a living, so I'm not having enough time to go online (including to spend time in this forum) as much as I want. I should do something which I think is an answer of my prayer to Allah back then (I can't really remember when, maybe few years ago). Currently, Allah helps me to do work which inshaAllah I could like/enjoy entrepreneurship and creativity, and I don't want to be ungrateful for the opportunity which is given to me, and if I could do my work properly, then God willing, it could make my parents happy, and that's much more important than "kicking you",

and, I think it is better and more peaceful to learn the Qur'an in person and avoid the contamination from misleading/bad posts in this forum. Perhaps it is better for me to focus on other things other than free-minds, however, I could feel the need to login for certain things, such as before this time, the last time I logged was not because of you, but because one of hicham's posts made me interested, and then I posted about a group in Facebook and I also wanted to ask something to brother Hizbullah (by PM).

I don't want to follow drfazl, you, or MoF. I think you threes have grave similarity.

But maybe drfazl is more "advanced", because it seems he already has quite-loyal supporters (or accounts?) who backed him here.

If people have wisdom and apply righteousness, I hope they could recognize why you, drfazl, and MoF should not be followed blindly.

Brother A.W is my friend, and I'm glad that he is not among of your fans.

Peace.

Yeah, remember how when people are ganging up on me or saying something I am saying is bad, without explanation, you take the opportunity to join up and try to kick me at that time saying "I am glad you said this" and stuff like that, its just a bad habit a little bit, I was bringing it up for that reason because many people are like that.

For example, in the real world, I saw how people are emboldened more when others are attacking first, then they kind of urge them on or say "yeah!" after the fact.

Anyway, I know I use controversial methods, but I'm strictly saying Allah alone is the Ultimate there is no other power, and thus I am set among my charlatan brothers as the least shirk prone.

Even your friend A.W. does not realize that when he says "it is left up to humans to choose the specific paths and Allah does not drive them down any paths or determine it for them" he is actually saying "it is up to chance, if they go this way or that way, not determined by God, so left to chance" then he makes it seem like that is a false accusation when it is a darn straightforward logical implication of what he is saying and he should man up and admit to it.

In your case, if you want to know what I think of you, I think you're a good muslim girl, and I like that. For whatever reason Allah has put you towards stupid things sometimes which are irrelevant like the flat earth stuff, but if you pray and fast and do all those things, then at least you're a Muslim "officially" and by the general standards.

As for the flat Earth, you should simply say "I do not know if it is this way or that way, since I have not flown a plane around the Earth or sailed a ship around the Earth or reached the ends of the Earth, I do not know" and that is sufficient, no one is blaming you for not knowing, but to exaggerate and say "The earth is flat!" like some people on here, is just what ignorant people do, the same they said "Jesus died!" and "Jesus is the son of God!" without knowing it at all.

I do not really say what I don't actually know. When I say Allah is the Ultimate, it is not conjecture, it merely means "I am designating the term "Allah" to refer to "the Ultimate" and thus I can not be "wrong" in that, its just my use of language, similarly I explained how words like Lucifer can be used the same way, the words are practically arbitrary was the point, it is about the definitions and the careful linguists and logical "math" involved and the implications.

It is the "math" that A.W. is having trouble with, because for him it is blasphemy to think that God might be "unjust" by his standards, so he can't say "God determines the evil they do" and so out of his sense of piety he leaves it up to "chance" and says God is not responsible for it all. This is what it seems to be, and so his intentions might be good, but he is arguing on the wrong side of the fence in two cases, first in defense of Man of Faith (not really defense, he just thought I was too harsh with him) then coming and being against me when I'm battling a villain drfazl. Anyone who comes and stupidly gets in the way and tries to impede righteousness, is being made a fool.

Same goes for you when you join in when people are messing with me and saying "yeah! You tell em guys!".

Anyone who opposes my statement that "Allah is the Ultimate, there is no other power but Allah, Allah chooses and determines everything and creates all experiences absolutely and is not caused or driven by any other driver but Allah alone who is self-sufficient" is performing shirk.

My statements are deliberate traps, if anyone falls into them by diverting even a metaphorical micro meter or less from what I am saying, they are going to be in the wrong.

A.W. was offered a chance to talk to me and become my friend, and he slapped it away and says there is nothing he wants to learn from me.

He is stubborn about his idea and won't even let himself realize the implications of what he is saying.

He doesn't get much of my ire though, because as far as I know he is not defrauding the poor and the ignorant the way that drfazl is nor saying anything necessarily harmful the way drfazl is.

Man of Faith is also not really saying anything very harmful, I have tested him to see how far he takes it and he moderated and did not take the things to extremes when I offered extremes so he is fine, not really very bad, also no one seems to listen to him the way that drfazl has a big following of people and influence.

I was harsh with some user who seemed to be implying some toleration for drinking and drugs because those are harmful substances.

Can you see who I get angry at most and in degrees and why?

It is the ones who actually are working harm that are the most vehemently fought against.

In the meantime, the rest are shirk loving, but loving shirk is one thing (and it is very bad) but taking shirk to the next level by saying "Allah doesn't create everything, so let infections and diseases spread and pay me 2000USD for prayers and talking to you" is a whole new level of villainy. As far as I know Man of Faith is not like that so doesn't even come close to that level of criminality.

The crimes of Man of Faith are that he just very boldly makes statements without explaining to people that these are his own discoveries that are not approved of really by the mainstream linguists and "experts". So it is his confidence that might mislead people, but if he simply explains that these are his own interpretations and discoveries and how he understands it based on the lexicons and inspiration and whatever else, then it isn't a big deal.

My earlier battles with him arose when he was just blatantly saying stuff that was not the mainstream academic stuff, but now I resolved that by always mentioning that this is the mainstream academic stuff. If he just mentions he is making up his own stuff that isn't vetted by the mainstream academics or approved by them, then it isn't a big deal and he won't be misleading anyone, he will be more open and straightforward. I'm also concerned his beliefs are unsuitable in his relationship and his wife may be being neglected or mistreated because of the beliefs (not as in direct abuse or anything, but just that she is a "worldly" person and he doesn't want to be like that and it isn't pleasing to either of them maybe so it is kind of a sad relationship, but I also understand its hard if not impossible to let go or divorce and see her go with anyone else who might be able to make her happier in this world).

Hicham's crimes are making bold and blatant statements, and runninglikezebras also has a tendency sometimes to say things with more confidence than it should have, and it would be better for both of them to say "it may be such and such" instead of "this is how it is". Hicham has a natural sense of humor that comes out in his posts, and runninglikezebras seems to have good intentions, neither are at the criminal level of drfazl, but Hicham would be more worthy of a criminal title because he boldly promotes backwards stuff and is opposed apparently to mainstream education and so is spreading ignorance and people to become alienated from the "worldly world of lies" and unable to function, fighting against math and science and astronomy and whatever else. Runninglikezebras is opposite, in the sense that he is more in line with science and more modern and progressive rather than radical and backwards. Yet runninglikezebras is also working alienation, since he wants to turn people from the mainstream Qiblah (honestly to me it doesn't matter at all, I try to only see what the current situation is and if the majority are all dealing with Mecca now then trying to turn them to Jerusalem is a petty struggle, more important are good deeds and strict monotheism and whatever else for now).

Who else?

good logic seems good and also pretty careful with his words. Armin remains pretty careful. Hawk99 seems pretty good and careful too, though each might have some ideas here and there which may be a little different from each other but it doesn't seem a big deal, they all seem to pray, fast, and can generally be considered mainstream Muslims.

Ikrame is way too easily on the attack and takes offense way too fast. She may also be one of the "flat-earthers" leading to alienation from the world and modern science.

1rightlyguided is just a generally a kind of strange character.

storminateacup didn't have enough patience but might come back.

faruk and UnseenLight seem to be rather good characters but they keep to themselves and haven't adopted as much of a fighting spirit, they may not have the time for it, but I think that it is a good deed to speak beautiful truths regarding Allah, even if they sound ugly to the disbelievers, so can use this forum more for a bit of that practice too. My speeches are meant to be praises of Allah, even though they seem to you to be insults, only a few understand that they are glorifying Allah as the Ultimate. It doesn't matter to me if people listen to me or not, because it is "birdsong", just beautiful praises I recite, I read them at least. It feels good to recite the praises of Allah, such as "Allah is the murderer of anyone who is murdered". For whatever reasons, these statements do not give some of you peace, but to some of us it gives us great happiness and peace. We are different, either one of us is Muslim or neither of us.

The beliefs of Layth, Wakas, and whoever else in authority are somewhat ambiguous to me even though they have posted lots, I just don't know what they believe or practice, if they are mostly mainstream Muslims or way into something different like some people on here who neither pray, nor fast, nor do any of those classic "5 pillars" or whatever.

When there was a few days break you guys had from me, I was actually blocked from the website by the moderators, so don't think I'm immune from being blocked or anything, but don't try to have me blocked, it is ridiculous that this website should not have at least one rather mainstream perspective present, and I'm still radical and not quite mainstream in the sense that I do not like the Hadith, but like Armin pointed out earlier I do follow a rather mainstream type of interpretation, even older than the modern apologetics, by promoting the "Fatalism" of traditional Islamic theology (it was much more common apparently in Islam before, but now the more Western theology of "Omnibenevolence" and "Free Will" and whatever else has become more popular and Muslims are also flocking towards those ideas whereas before they used to be more Fatalist and not particularly focused on "Omnibenevolence" as much as "Omnipotence" among the majority. This is also more traditional Christian and Jewish theology, which had periods of strongly Fatalist and Power focused thinking and not all this new mushy "daddy love" stuff, that people are also trying to nudge Islam into.

Man_of_Faith

Man of Faith is also not really saying anything very harmful, I have tested him to see how far he takes it and he moderated and did not take the things to extremes when I offered extremes so he is fine, not really very bad, also no one seems to listen to him the way that drfazl has a big following of people and influence.

I do not seek popularity by portraying something the way people want to hear it but because it is God's stance. And I'd never charge a cent for anything that comes out of my mouth or fingers in terms of guidance but my salary is from God.

And I take the Arabic words for their morphological meaning and do not choose a meaning for each occurrence.

I share points with drfazl however, when it comes to not rely so much on physical matter. Some of the teachings are not bad.

That was my message.

Be well

drfazl

The Foremost Sinner, This!

68.35 Shall We then treat the People of Faith like the People of Sin?

Allah is the Best of the judges about one's Faith save the manifest disbeliever who shall dare defy Allah, and who continues judging others' Faith, turning out to be the foremost sinner in the eyes of Allah. And the punishment of Allah upon him is already happening before us. One shall always fall short of beautiful words, thus lowering his own dignity; yet cannot comprehend failing himself. Yet, Allah is still compassionate towards such sinners and asks further, thus

68.36 What has happened with you? How do you judge?

Yet he does not heed to the angry call of Allah; but continues to judging the people, drowning himself further deep in his sin. Allah keeps asking him for proofs from the Book, whether he was authorized to judge the faith of the people; but he is not in the earshot.

68.37 Or have ye a scripture wherein ye learn?

He has become deaf in the ear and his heart has hardened; the foremost sinner not to hear anymore admonition from God. But Allah continues to reach the sinner;

68.38 That you have surely therein what you choose?

Gone, far away is he! He is the loser both in this world and in the hereafter.

FreedomStands

Is the foremost sinner perchance one who says Allah is the Ultimate and sole power, creator of everything absolutely whatsoever? Is the blessed one he who says that Allah is not the creator of everything and the jinn are partners in creation creating what Allah did not create and to reject certain gifts of Allah because Allah in fact did not create them or educate people in them and all this can be yours for the price of 2000USD.

Is the Quran the one that says villains are sent with Fancy words in order to decieve? Yet is one who says Allah is creator of everything the Deceiver or the one who says Allah is not the creator of everything but only some things.

Is it that Allah is angry being called the Ultimate and would prefer that it is stated instead that Allah is not the Ultimate but the Ultimate differs from Allah since Allah is not determiner of all things?

Is it that the Quran told the people Do not discern between the people who is in the right and who is in the wrong, do not Identify wrongdoing or shirk or criminal activity nor use your discernment to catch out the falsehood but swallow every liar who says Allah is not the creator of everything and charges 2000USD for this. Say nothing to them and allow them to continue their holy work of spreading shirk and robbing the poor and telling the ignorant not to fight disease because you are not to identify danger or criminality nor have any laws or take any action to speak out against anything. Yeah, I think I am starting to recall that verse but maybe you could find it for me for a small sum. Allow me to empty my pockets before you.

LOGANATHAN

'ALL IS FROM GOD The good from God is FROM GOD, the evil from yourselves IS FROM GOD, ALL IS FROM GOD'

Can you explain me why god created good & bad?
why evil from me or you or someone else?
if the evil from man is from god, why me or you or some body are abusing?punishing?
why we are not keep quiet since evil also from god?
can you reply based on quran ayat.

huruf

Let me quote a message from this very thread which answer, I think, your question

Quote from FreedomStands on August 02, 2015, 120914 PM

That does not mean that in Allah's guidance to people Allah has said for them to kill their female children and whatever and say that it is good for them to do that. Allah created these evils but they are still evils, he didn't instruct people in religious revelations that it is good to do it and that they should do it,

"That is the very point that has to be made.

Wrong and bad are human measures, (they are not even for animals or stones), not for God. God does not do right and wrong. He is God, He is not going to suffer any consequences of infringring any laws, because he is the law and everything is within His kingdom. He can do us as much wrong as he wants, we are His. He is nobody's.

BUT

He tells us He is fair, just, equitable, merciful and ALLPOWERFUL, therefore whatever thing he does to us that we consider bad or wrong, it is in God's power to turn into bliss and glory. We will not be shortchanged. Therefore we cannot say that God wrongs us. We may not approve of it, but we can do nothing about it. But we can accpet his rulings with grace and thank for having an existence. That we could not give to ourselves, therefore, even for us God is even more than the best, He is Everything.

It is us who live in the kindom of right and wrong, bad and good, purity and evil. Those are words for us, not for Him. Those are words for the laws that apply for us, a creation of His. They do not apply to Him.

Huwa Al-lahu ahad,
allahu samad
lam yakid wa lam yulad
wa
lam yakllahu kufwan ahad

Salaam al Quddus

Man_of_Faith

God deceives so that unworthy people commit sin in their delusion, but God did not do sin. This life is a sifting process under harsh conditions.

God is actually not evil minded at all but rather the opposite if you get to know Him, but expects people to be something and have intelligence.

Be well

FreedomStands

'ALL IS FROM GOD The good from God is FROM GOD, the evil from yourselves IS FROM GOD, ALL IS FROM GOD'

Can you explain me why god created good & bad?
why evil from me or you or someone else?
if the evil from man is from god, why me or you or some body are abusing?punishing?
why we are not keep quiet since evil also from god?
can you reply based on quran ayat.

Because your not keeping quiet is also from God. Please think to the end limits. There is no "why", it is as God wills. Including our opposition to one another for example, everything, ALL, not "some". Why is it no one can comprehend "All is from God" that IS the Ayat.

FreedomStands

'ALL IS FROM GOD The good from God is FROM GOD, the evil from yourselves IS FROM GOD, ALL IS FROM GOD'

Can you explain me why god created good & bad?
why evil from me or you or someone else?
if the evil from man is from god, why me or you or some body are abusing?punishing?
why we are not keep quiet since evil also from god?
can you reply based on quran ayat.

To say "God did this BECAUSE" in an Ultimate sense, means "God was driven by some cause" but when you are at the Ultimate level truly, there is no "cause" except God's own free will, to will freely, there are no conditions present to drive God to do this or that, God is beyond all that.

If one says "some things are not from God" that goes against "All is from God" and "God created everything, you and what you make" and many other verses, but more importantly, even if the Qur'an says or seems to say otherwise, it is a matter of having a clear understanding. If the Qur'an said "the Ultimate is not the Ultimate, but God is driven like a slave" are we to just believe it? It would be a lie. This is why a person has to understand first, then their understanding and interpretation choices will be more correct hopefully.

When someone says "All is not really from God" they are saying "God is not the determiner or creator of everything, there are other determiners and creators besides God" not only is this shirk by its usual definition, but the implication in it for one who thinks to the end limits is "If things can freely go this way or that way, or even if there are two choices with strict results but can go either this way or that way and God does not determine what a person does, then the power of "chance" is what God is relying on to determine, and thus "chance" is the Ultimate determiner, and not God"

It is thus simply shifting away from God the title of Ultimate, but the Ultimate will always be there no matter what you call it, but if you make your God lesser than the Ultimate you are worshiping and adoring the wrong thing, only the Ultimate should be called God, and if your God is not by definition or implication the Ultimate, then it is not to me God at all, and should be despised as a false concept lesser than the Ultimate and being worshiped in vain, idolatry, and hypocrisy.

Do you understand?

I've posted many ayats, if ayats are what you want, but you need to understand ayats do not matter at all. Why do I say that? I say that because many people interpret ayats incorrectly, because they do not have a proper reasoning ability or taking things to the end limit in their understandings. Ayats don't matter because if an Ayat SEEMS to say something, it doesn't mean that it is true, like if an ayat SEEMS to say "God doesn't determine everything" then by implications such an interpretation is shirk, and logically false also and linguistically, what is being called God then is not the "Greatest" by definition. Is any of this processing for you?

Ayats can be found here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607626.0 and here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg371947#msg371947

In the above, drfazl attributes other creators to things and then insists these things are not from God but clearly is saying they are strictly from others than God. This makes him a huge mushrik, even if he doesn't comprehend why. Besides all his shirk, he does many more evil things than that which are exposed gradually throughout the thread, so you may do well to read from that point on-wards.

drfazl denies this in many ways, stating directly that what is being said here is "wrong", such as here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg373120#msg373120

calling the ayats "flooding the page" here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg371963#msg371963

The denial of what I say, even in the smallest micro-measurement, means shirk and logical error, I've narrowed it down explicitly and looked at all the implications, and I do not deny the implications of what I am saying, and can clearly explain why I am saying it, it isn't just for fun, people need to face this and see what their answer is to facing this.

Saying "wrong" is not an answer, because I am only telling people the logical implications of what they are saying, it isn't "wrong". It is like 1+1=2. Only a jerk responds to that "wrong".

huruf

Let us see. God is all there is. We are his creatures. As soon as God wills we will never have existed. Or we will have eixsted a second. It is all God, all there is. We are dreams (metaphorically a way of speaking, a say that because somebody sked another time where it was said in the Qur'an that God dreamt) That is. we have no existence by ourselves.

So God says something to us, for us, not for him he does not damned need anything from us and whatever He wants he can get without dropping us a word. But the way He has wanted it is that we know Him. A little. So he tells us about Himself, and about the kind of creatures we are and the destiny he has made for us. It is on those terms, in the terms of our existence as His creatures how he speaks to us.

Man of Faith said "but God did not do sin"

Of course God did no sin, just as however we become engrossed in deep thought and become very progressive there is no way that mice are going to pass a math exam.

Sin, or whatever word we want to use for guilt, is for us human, neither God nor mice have anything with it. Sin, error, evil, mistake or whatever are terms for us to go through our destiny. They are exclusively human or jinn terms, not for anybody else. It is for us that those terms have meaning. Our accounts have to square as the creatures that we are, not as the creatures that we are not. And to square them God gives us guidance.

God does not owe us anything whatsoever. He made us, not us Him. He can, we cannot. But he tells us about Himself, his beatuful neames, the names of power, frightening, the names of beauty hopeful and apeasing. We have to know which names we are going to invoke Him with, because those are His names and He tells us that He answers and those who have faith and have asked from him and trusted God have not been deceived. We can try it ourselves.

Now, what our friend Freedoms... has been arguing is that God creates everything even our deeds, and that is what the Qur'an says.

So the question it seems that makes people rebel or be doubtful or be shocked, is that how can God then punish those who do wrong things for themselves (it is always for themselves, to God we can do no harm whatsoever, nor frustrate him, he is not a father for that) when He is at the origin of their deeds.

Fine, God creates what he wills. He tells us so. He also tells us that he is equitable, fair, MERCIFUL, FULL OF COMPASSION, THE MOST COMPASSIONATE, THE COMPASSIONATE. That is His name, one of his names. ?Do we petend that we are more compassionate than He is? Surely not. Therefore he is just, equitable compassionate, and tels us time and again that nobody will be shortchanged. If we feel we suffer something unbearable, He will compensate in such a maner that we will not feel shortchanged.

Do we agree that we should suffer even if we will after be compensated generously? Fine. Do we not agree? Too bad for us. God is the owner, he can make us dissapear and never have existed, so. What can we do? We do not have any problem. Our only problem is to learn to be faithful creatures of God. Subservient, of course.

Were we to be subservient to another human being, we would be cowards without dignity. Being subservient o a Being, the being that is compassionate that loves us such as we are, yes such as we are, because he could choose not to make us, like our fathers who may be wanted someone better than us, but God made us just as we are, indeed, so, if we return a bit of faithfullness in this life for a life that is going to be rewarding beyond belief to a Being that loves us, there is no indignity in it, but truthfulness. Being what he made of us is being the subject of his will, of His love.

If any human being met a lover that could be so generous, so truthful, so beatiful, we would be delighted- Of course, such a lover doesn't fall for a coward or a lazy one who won'tbattle his o her life... If such a lover loves one really indeed what he or she will do with us is not leave us in peace till we grow to our true measure of full human an courageous being...

Well something like that

That is the end of the story, God make make our life difficult but will be the most generous director we could dream of having. And finally everything's destiny is to return to Him, to subsume in His consciousness. Glory.

Salaam

FreedomStands