regarding kabah
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Quote
In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba.Dargento
Do you face Kaaba while driving? while working? Where is kaaba assigned as the qibla?
We are told to face masjid al harram wherever we are
You are making a huge assumption that the sacred masjid = kaabaI can make a much better case for becca as per 396
Come on D you can't even read properly, sorry to say, how come you can make a better case for becca??
You quoted and you did not even read the quote, before responding, The quote says, to unite muslims in their worship of One true God.
We are talking about worship and particularly Salaat.
Why should I face Kaaba while driving? and working ? am I worshipping?
What is assumption there, it is crystal clear, we discuss it later on.
Dargento
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who honors the Connection, and who contributes towards betterment; as well as those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous
You have quoted it in bold and Pitty you have not read it.
When reading this verse with above verses which I quoted, it can easily be understood that, Offcourse WE HAVE TO TURN OUR FACES AT SOME PARTICULAR DIRECTION, but ............................................they are the righteous. -
Wakas
qiblah does not equal kabbah, as per Quran, sorry. If you re-phrase your argument to say we should face qiblah then that is a different story.
It is too early to issue a statement, brother.
We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid.
Muhammad an Arab
Born in Mecca, brought up In Mecca
Could natrually only be pleased if the Mosque of his birth place is to be assigned as Qibla for all the Muslims.Mustansir Mir do whom you like to read
points out that the actual words of the Quran is akin to "We have seen your face IN THE SKIES." This shows that the Prophet was in fact turning his face to the skies so much in prayer with the hope that God Almighty would restore the qiblah to the ORIGINAL house that Ibraheem established for this purpose, it was as if his face was IN the heavens.Only in this way the Prophecy of Abraham could have been fullfilled.
Therefore KAABAH IS QIBLA according to my understanding of Quran.Tell us yours?
"Qibla doesnot equal Kaaba as per Quran" why? How?
Waiting for your detail reply, if you issue a statement then you must have some solid reasoning for that, let us hear.
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Raj-ah,
Firstly, it was YOU making a claim that we should face kabbah and this is in AQ, not me. I knew this was incorrect and thus asked you for evidence, for which you did not show any direct link, but indirect.
The myth of the traditional Kabbah can easily be debunked by looking at AQ itself
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10079.msg53357#msg53357
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9837.msg111108#msg111108 -
Peace Raj-Ah
The thing is that there is no mention of us to turn in that direction during Salat. It is said as "We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid."
or
"Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do."
My point is that there is no link between Salat and us turning our face towards an area.
Peace,
Nyma -
Peace Raj-Ah
The thing is that there is no mention of us to turn in that direction during Salat. It is said as "We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid."
or
"Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do."
My point is that there is no link between Salat and us turning our face towards an area.
Peace,
Nyma-
For the covenants (of security and safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish,
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Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer,-
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Let them adore the Lord of this House,
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Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger).
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Dear Nyma
Peace Raj-Ah
The thing is that there is no mention of us to turn in that direction during Salat. It is said as "We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid."
or
"Wherever you go, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do."
My point is that there is no link between Salat and us turning our face towards an area.
Peace,
NymaThen again you did not read all the verses before arriving at a conclusion
The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path."
We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.
The Qiblah was changed upon request of Muhammad, So Allah can distinguish between two groups of people. In the same verses Allah tells us GOD never puts your worship to waste.
When the Qiblah was changed from the original to Kaaba that is in Makkah, the Jews and Christians got annoyed. If you go back to the books of Allah, you will clearly find out that all those who prayed Physically faced towards a particular direction. I have posted many Ayats from Bible old and New in different topics.Even an average person can understand that the talk is about Worship and one of the way to worship Allah is through Slaat. Therefore your argument that Salaat has no link with facing any particular area needs reconsideration.
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Wakas
Raj-ah,
Firstly, it was YOU making a claim that we should face kabbah and this is in AQ, not me. I knew this was incorrect and thus asked you for evidence, for which you did not show any direct link, but indirect.
Yes I made a claim as per my understanding of Quran, so did you, you issued a statement and I am just asking how did you arrived at that statement?
I have given my reasons right or wrong! so should you.Regarding the links, you provided and the questions you raised in those links, most of them have been answered by me in the thread "Who built the Kaaba"?
But then again that is not the proper way, please tell us here in this thread because I am not Jaxal, I may answer or ask questions differently from that of Jaxal.
We are here to learn and share. The only way you can dismantle the proof in favour of Kaaba being in Makkah is to show me that the "Prophet", which Abraham promised who will come from the people of the land of "HOUSE" was not born in Arab (Makkah).
Stage is all yours.
Remember ayman failed to provide a proof from Quran that Kaaba was located in Northren Arabia.
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Dear Nyma
Then again you did not read all the verses before arriving at a conclusion
The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path."
We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.
The Qiblah was changed upon request of Muhammad, So Allah can distinguish between two groups of people. In the same verses Allah tells us GOD never puts your worship to waste.
When the Qiblah was changed from the original to Kaaba that is in Makkah, the Jews and Christians got annoyed. If you go back to the books of Allah, you will clearly find out that all those who prayed Physically faced towards a particular direction. I have posted many Ayats from Bible old and New in different topics.Even an average person can understand that the talk is about Worship and one of the way to worship Allah is through Slaat. Therefore your argument that Salaat has no link with facing any particular area needs reconsideration.
Maybe it was changed from Makkah to Jerusalem.
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Maybe it was changed from Makkah to Jerusalem.
Or from "Sky" to Jerusalem?
In the previous passage there are some mentioning about "You held your face to the sky/upwards".
And there are also a passage about "The people of the book knew/recognized that the command was indeed from their LORD".
(Jerusalem is a familiar place to them).The "traditional" view on this has its own "bugs" / "illogicality".
The pagan Arab's cubic structure named "Kaba", still house many idols at that time.
It would be indeed strange that God instruct Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah and its people to pray towards "A supermarket of Idols" called Kaba.Salam
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Peace Rajah,
Remember ayman failed to provide a proof from Quran that Kaaba was located in Northren Arabia.
You don't even know the meaning of the word "kaaba" and thus are unable to translate it.
The house of the god is the base and not some pagan stone cube and its location is given precisely in 2226. It is not my problem that you don't have faith in 2226.
If you are looking for proof that stone cubes were located in Northern Arabia then there is plenty of it. You can go to Petra in Northern Arabia and see the stone cubes that you love to adore
http//img407.imageshack.us/img407/3543/5blockpetrahl9.jpg
http//img186.imageshack.us/img186/8889/4petradjinnblockslo3.jpg
I know you love stone cubes but please resist the urge to kiss or bow towards the images displayed on your computer screen.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Rajah,
You don't even know the meaning of the word "kaaba" and thus are unable to translate it.
The house of the god is the base and not some pagan stone cube and its location is given precisely in 2226. It is not my problem that you don't have faith in 2226.
If you are looking for proof that stone cubes were located in Northern Arabia then there is plenty of it. You can go to Petra in Northern Arabia and see the stone cubes that you love to adore
http//img407.imageshack.us/img407/3543/5blockpetrahl9.jpg
http//img186.imageshack.us/img186/8889/4petradjinnblockslo3.jpg
I know you love stone cubes but please resist the urge to kiss or bow towards the images displayed on your computer screen.
Peace,
Ayman
Is this about the Ka'ba or the Masjid Al Haram? What is the Masjid Al Haram?
Why would changing the Qibla from Jerusalem to Makkah be a problem for many of the foolowers?
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Bigmo
Maybe it was changed from Makkah to Jerusalem.
It could not be, dear Bigmo because of the following Ayat
We have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid.
Muhammad an Arab
Born in Mecca, brought up In Mecca
Could natrually only be pleased if the Mosque/house of his birth place is to be assigned as Qibla for all the Muslims and not offcourse a Mosque or Place some thousand miles away.Only in this way the Prophecy of Abraham could have been fullfilled.
Therefore KAABAH at Makkah IS QIBLA according to my understanding of Quran. -
Bigmo
It could not be, dear Bigmo because of the following AyatWe have seen you turning your face about the sky. We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid.
Could natrually only be pleased if the Mosque/house of his birth place is to be assigned as Qibla for all the Muslims and not offcourse a Mosque or Place some thousand miles away.
Salaam Raj-ah
So it is about him and the house of his birth, not the house of Allah? Are you sure these were the intentions of the prophet?
And what about this "distance"? He was looking at the sky for heaven's sake, millions of miles away, searching for a "qibla". Why not look down to the earth?
And as jafar says, why would Muhammad "be pleased" with a supermarket of idols and a place where he had but enemies that chased him out of it? Patriotism?
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Salaam Raj-ah
And as jafar says, why would Muhammad "be pleased" with a supermarket of idols and a place where he had but enemies that chased him out of it? Patriotism?
Maybe he won Idol Supermarket Sweep? ;D
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Peace Rajah
Dargento
Come on D you can't even read properly, sorry to say, how come you can make a better case for becca??396 The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.
You quoted and you did not even read the quote, before responding, The quote says, to unite muslims in their worship of One true God.
I did read it again, and again. 'Muslim' is not a proper noun, Jesus' disciples call themselves 'muslim' in al quran, abraham, jacob etc....
We are talking about worship and particularly Salaat.
Kaaba has nothing to do with it in al quran
Why should I face Kaaba while driving? and working ? am I worshipping?
Because you are asked to face it WHEREVER we are, not during salaat, but wherever we are. Allah doesn't forget nor does he err. It doesn't say 'face masjid al haraam DURING SALAT' This is your own interpretation that has zero basis.
Dargento
You have quoted it in bold and Pitty you have not read it.
When reading this verse with above verses which I quoted, it can easily be understood that,I've read it, you just want me to draw conclusions based on preconceived notions.
Offcourse WE HAVE TO TURN OUR FACES AT SOME PARTICULAR DIRECTION, but ............................................they are the righteous.
Maybe so, but it sure as hell ain't 'kaaba'
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Peace Rajah
Because you are asked to face it WHEREVER we are, not during salaat, but wherever we are. Allah doesn't forget nor does he err. It doesn't say 'face masjid al haraam DURING SALAT' This is your own interpretation that has zero basis.
Yes I agree it is his own interpretation.He does not understand the commands e.g If Bush orders his soldiers "Whereever you are fight against the enemies of USA",then it automatically means USA soldiers should always go on fighting even
-during sleep
-during eating
-during their visit to lavatory for the call of nature.
Poor Raja -
thank you for that insightful and well thought-out reply, and also comparing God to George W. Bush
bravo
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who honors the Connection, and who contributes towards betterment; as well as those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.
2146 Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it as they know their own children; and a group of them hides the truth while they know.
If masjid al haram = kaaba, 2146 becomes non-sense
"Back to our old ways are we"
