regarding kabah
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Is this your definition of "official"?
They actually DID bomb Iraq and Afghanistan, with the blessings and indispensible help of the Servant of the Two Holy Harams (and the other Sunni Leaders)..
Direction towards what?
What is the purpose for it? To point to a direction? Where does this direction point to? To the black cube. What is the importance of a black cube? It is not important per se, but its purpose. Which is? To point to a direction. Where does this direction point to...
.
What do you think?
So you don't think there is a Qibla? Do you face anything while you pray?
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(٨
2198 There is no sin on you if you seek the Bounty of your Lord. Then when you leave 'Araf?t, remember All?h at the Mash'ar-il-Har?m. And remember Him as He has guided you, and verily, you were, before, of those who were astray.
Where/what is Mash'ar-il-Har?m?
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Raj-ah
I know reminding you of this
when you discarded even reasoning for some nonesense uttered by an anonymous scholar, as your believing that Mecca is Faarraan , or that the meaning of "masjidan Diraaran in " means "a mosque called Zirar, or "a guy called Zirar built a mosque" because some "Muslim scholar" said so.
Do you really need such explanation?
is quite embarrassing, but that's not an excuse to forfeit good manners and revert to name calling.
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Peace Allen,
What is the evidence from the Quran that this room was/is full of idols.you provide the proof.As far as your rest of pictures are concerned ,they show that you are just ignorant of concept of idols.
Your self-denial shows that your love for those idols has blinded your god-given natural instinct. If you came upon those objects in your home town and saw a bunch of half-naked guys spinning around them and kissing and fondling them then you would surely think that you stumbled upon some weird pagan cult. The idols and rituals are the same, so the only reason you don't have the same natural god-given instinctive reaction towards the idols in Mecca is that now those are YOUR idols while the others are theirs. It is nothing but sheer arrogance.
Please first provide the proof from the Quran that this room was full of idols.
Waiting for Proof from the Quran.Still waiting for your reply about "Concrete Proof from the Holy Quran for existing of idols in the Baitullah "
Please see 2226. If you have faith in 2226 then you should know that the house of the god cannot have idols. Since we verified with our god-given mind, eyes and instinct that there are idols in Mecca (plus the fact that the stone cube is a symbol of the Nabataean idol Allat mentioned in Chapter 53) so this cannot be the house of the god, pure and simple.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Allen,
Your self-denial shows that your love for those idols has blinded your god-given natural instinct. If you came upon those objects in your home town and saw a bunch of half-naked guys spinning around them and kissing and fondling them then you would surely think that you stumbled upon some weird pagan cult. The idols and rituals are the same, so the only reason you don't have the same natural god-given instinctive reaction towards the idols in Mecca is that now those are YOUR idols while the others are theirs. It is nothing but sheer arrogance.
Please see 2226. If you have faith in 2226 then you should know that the house of the god cannot have idols. Since we verified with our god-given mind, eyes and instinct that there are idols in Mecca (plus the fact that the stone cube is a symbol of the Nabataean idol Allat mentioned in Chapter 53) so this cannot be the house of the god, pure and simple.
Peace,
Ayman
You write so much but always reluctant to copy past Quranic ayas.Why so ??
actual aya2226
Please highlight the words which show that this "house " was full of idols
I hope you will not runaway as when you claimed that "Ramadaan" is "Ramdan or Rumdan" and you failed to provide any evidence for the existance of these words and ran away.
Kindly ,one request in future when you refer to aya please put their arabic text.
You saidplus the fact that the stone cube is a symbol of the Nabataean idol Allat mentioned in Chapter 53
Interesting .Again proof/evidence is required.
you said
The idols and rituals are the same
Idols are made of stone/wood/metal like copper or silver
It means "rituals " are also made of
-wood
-stone
-metal like copper /siver
Very interesting like "Rumdan/Ramdan'
Again proof is requisted. -
Peace Allen,
You write so much but always reluctant to copy past Quranic ayas.Why so ??
I assume that most people here have access to the internet so they can look up the passage either in electronic or hard copy form. Thus, I only give the reference number, as I did for 2226. This saves time. Usually, I only provide the passage when I need to correct a translation through my own translation of it.
actual aya
2226
Please highlight the words which show that this "house " was full of idolsPlease highlight the words above which show the following
- That the house's place is in Mecca.
- That the house is a black stone cubic room that was built by the Saudis and named Kaaba in 1996.
- That the house has a bunch of black stones glued together with red epoxy and set in a vagina-shaped enclosure.
- That we should kiss, touch, or wave at the so-called Black Stone.
- That the house has an "eternal stream" called Zamzam next to it and that its water heals all ills.
- That the house has a footprint next to it that is enclosed in a vase with a flowery motif.
- That we should spin seven times around the black stone cube.
- That by revering the above idols and performing those mindless rituals, our sins would be forgiven and return as newborn.
I hope you will not runaway as when you claimed that "Ramadaan" is "Ramdan or Rumdan" and you failed to provide any evidence for the existance of these words and ran away.
I provided the evidence and everyone on that thread saw it. It is not my problem that you are unable to read properly and keep going in circles.
Kindly ,one request in future when you refer to aya please put their arabic text.
I will put the Arabic text when necessary. On the other hand, we are having this discussion in English. If you know what the word "aya" or "ayah" or "ayat" or whatever you want means then you should translate it into English because it is not meaningless.
Interesting .Again proof/evidence is required.
you said
Idols are made of stone/wood/metal like copper or silver
It means "rituals " are also made of
-wood
-stone
-metal like copper /siver
Very interesting like "Rumdan/Ramdan'
Again proof is requisted.Again, it is not my problem that you are unable to read properly. Please read again carefully what I wrote.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Allen,
I assume that most people here have access to the internet so they can look up the passage either in electronic or hard copy form. Thus, I only give the reference number, as I did for 2226. This saves time. Usually, I only provide the passage when I need to correct a translation through my own translation of it.
Please highlight the words above which show the following
-
That the house's place is in Mecca.
-
That the house is a black stone cubic room that was built by the Saudis and named Kaaba in 1996.
-
That the house has a bunch of black stones glued together with red epoxy and set in a vagina-shaped enclosure.
-
That we should kiss, touch, or wave at the so-called Black Stone.
-
That the house has an "eternal stream" called Zamzam next to it and that its water heals all ills.
-
That the house has a footprint next to it that is enclosed in a vase with a flowery motif.
-
That we should spin seven times around the black stone cube.
-
That by revering the above idols and performing those mindless rituals, our sins would be forgiven and return as newborn.
I provided the evidence and everyone on that thread saw it. It is not my problem that you are unable to read properly and keep going in circles.
I will put the Arabic text when necessary. On the other hand, we are having this discussion in English. If you know what the word "aya" or "ayah" or "ayat" or whatever you want means then you should translate it into English because it is not meaningless.
Again, it is not my problem that you are unable to read properly. Please read again carefully what I wrote.
Peace,
Ayman
I was asking for the "Proof from the Quran for existing of idols in Baitullah " from Samia because she said so.You yourself interfered and gave the reference
Please see 2226.I gave you the Aya
2226instead of giving proof from it you are running away as usual.The thing you did when you put "Rumadan/Ramdan" theory and you did not provide any proof.
Still waiting for Proof from the Quran of "Existance of Idols in the baituallah".
You people avoid posting arabic text of Quranic verses not because you want to save time rather to cheat and deceive people.
How much time is spent in copy pasting one or two aya??
Still waiting for the "PROOF" -
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You will not find mention of idols in the "kaaba" nor will you find mention of a black cube with the above description because God does not command evil.
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Peace Allen,
I was asking for the "Proof from the Quran for existing of idols in Baitullah " from Samia because she said so.You yourself interfered and gave the reference I gave you the Aya
2226
instead of giving proof from it you are running away as usual.The thing you did when you put "Rumadan/Ramdan" theory and you did not provide any proof.
Still waiting for Proof from the Quran of "Existance of Idols in the baituallah".
You people avoid posting arabic text of Quranic verses not because you want to save time rather to cheat and deceive people.
How much time is spent in copy pasting one or two aya??
Still waiting for the "PROOF"The real house of the god has no idols in it according to 2226. Thus, if you have faith in 2226 then the black stone cube that you falsely call "Baitullah" cannot be the real house of the god. On the other hand, your logic is the same as thinking that by calling a duck "dog", it will become a dog. Is this clear enough for you to be able to read it?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Allen,
The real house of the god has no idols in it according to 2226. Thus, if you have faith in 2226 then the black stone cube that you falsely call "Baitullah" cannot be the real house of the god. On the other hand, your logic is the same as thinking that by calling a duck "dog", it will become a dog. Is this clear enough for you to be able to read it?
Peace,
Ayman
So you admit that that there is no Quranic Proof that Baituallah had Idols ??
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salam
just because the mosque in mecca contains things which may have been previously idolised and worshipped, does not mean that anyone who prays in the direction of mecca is worshipping those idols. maybe some do, but most people who kiss the black pagan stone during their pilgramage do not worship it; neither do most of them worship the kaba. to an observer, it may seem that they are worshipping idols, but (at least some of them) are not worshipping any idol, but perform these rituals because they believe God has commanded them to , or will be please by them doing so.
i saw a man clutch his long lost girlfriend's dress and kiss it, but he does not love his girlfriend's dress. i saw a catholic woman kneel before a painting of 'the virgin mary' and pray. maybe she worships 'the virgin mary' but she certainly does not worship the painting.
also, 2226 does not say that the temple to which it refers does not contain idols. it does say that abraham cleansed it of idols, but does not say it would never again contain idols.
i personally do not believe mecca has anything to do with the qibla, but i think it is unfair to say that everyone praying towards it are idol-worshippers.
salam
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salam
i saw a man clutch his long lost girlfriend's dress and kiss it, but he does not love his girlfriend's dress. i saw a catholic woman kneel before a painting of 'the virgin mary' and pray. maybe she worships 'the virgin mary' but she certainly does not worship the painting.
Salaam ignoramus
According to the above what is the relation between God and the balck stone? Do you mean it reminds them of God or it is a representation of Him?
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Salaam ignoramus
According to the above what is the relation between God and the balck stone? Do you mean it reminds them of God or it is a representation of Him?
They are told that its the foundation stone that Abraham used, so they kiss it as a sign of respect. It reminds them I think of Abraham. I am not sure how they know its the same stone.
2.124-129 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled He said "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded "And also from my offspring!" He answered "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers." Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer). And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in God and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!", And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing. "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of rites; and turn unto us ; for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. "Our Lord! send amongst them an Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
(124) (125) (126) (127) (12 (129)
Also
22.25-29. 25. As to those who have rejected God, and would keep back (men) from the Way of God, and from the Sacred Mosque, which We have made to men - equal is the dweller there and the visitor from the country - and any whose purpose therein is profanity or wrong-doing - them will We cause to taste of a most Grievous Penalty, Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the House, (saying) "Associate not anything with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves, "And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men they will come to thee on foot and on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; "That they may witness the benefits for them, and celebrate the name of God, through the Days appointed, over the cattle which He has provided for them then eat ye thereof and feed the distressed ones in want., "Then let them complete the rites prescribed for them, perform their vows, and circumambulate the Ancient House."
(25) (26) (27) (2
What is the House here talking about? Is it in Mecca? Or is it something else?
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Raj-ah
I know reminding you of this
Quote from Samia on October 05, 2007, 044858 AM
when you discarded even reasoning for some nonesense uttered by an anonymous scholar, as your believing that Mecca is Faarraan , or that the meaning of "masjidan Diraaran in " means "a mosque called Zirar, or "a guy called Zirar built a mosque" because some "Muslim scholar" said so.Do you really need such explanation?
is quite embarrassing, but that's not an excuse to forfeit good manners and revert to name calling.
I can understand Samia you are having a hard time, and all those who support Falsehood have hard time, that is natrual.
First none of your post up till now was of that standard, that while answering it some one can feel difficulty embarrass.
Secondly What do you mean be Good manners? where did you felt that in my post?
Thirdly reagrding SAM, my sister-in-law who also happens to be my second cousin and she is a Doctor (MD) by profession, her name is SAMIA and I often call her Dr. SAM, so if this is the reason you are getting annoyed, then brickwall -
I can understand Samia you are having a hard time, and all those who support Falsehood have hard time, that is natrual.
First none of your post up till now was of that standard, that while answering it some one can feel difficulty embarrass.
Secondly What do you mean be Good manners? where did you felt that in my post?
Thirdly reagrding SAM, my sister-in-law who also happens to be my second cousin and she is a Doctor (MD) by profession, her name is SAMIA and I often call her Dr. SAM, so if this is the reason you are getting annoyed, then brickwallI'll take this as an apology
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Allen
Dear Ayman
Still waiting for your reply about "Concrete Proof from the Holy Quran for existing of idols in the Baitullah "
RegardsAnd may be you will have to wait for very long. I am still waiting for telling me from Quran that Allah ordered to change the location of his House?
Ayman with his egoistic behavior will keep on saying what he thinks is right without pondering for a moment at others arguments.
Allen to Ayman
So you admit that that there is no Quranic Proof that Baituallah had Idols ??
What else?