regarding kabah

Raj-ah

Ignoramus

salam

just because the mosque in mecca contains things which may have been previously idolised and worshipped, does not mean that anyone who prays in the direction of mecca is worshipping those idols.

Exactly.

Bigmo from Quran

Then let them complete the rites prescribed for them, perform their vows, and circumambulate the Ancient House."

Do you read the word "Ancient" dear Samia?

Bigmo

I can understand Samia you are having a hard time, and all those who support Falsehood have hard time, that is natrual.

First none of your post up till now was of that standard, that while answering it some one can feel difficulty embarrass.
Secondly What do you mean be Good manners? where did you felt that in my post?
Thirdly reagrding SAM, my sister-in-law who also happens to be my second cousin and she is a Doctor (MD) by profession, her name is SAMIA and I often call her Dr. SAM, so if this is the reason you are getting annoyed, then brickwall

We are all here to learn. The Koran is very challenging. At least we are all trying, and she is trying. Why this accusations?

Samia

Do you read the word "Ancient" dear Samia?

Where?

ignoramus

We are all here to learn. The Koran is very challenging. At least we are all trying, and she is trying. Why this accusations?

salam

i second that.

brother Rajah, i think some of your posts rude. you do have some valid points, but they would you much easier to see if you refrained from unnecessary offensive rhetoric.

salam

Allen

Allen

And may be you will have to wait for very long. I am still waiting for telling me from Quran that Allah ordered to change the location of his House?

Ayman with his egoistic behavior will keep on saying what he thinks is right without pondering for a moment at others arguments.

Allen to Ayman
What else?

Dear Raja
You are right.He always circumvent the real question and goes on talking about irrelavent things and thinks that it is the answer.I had this experience while discussing "Ramadaan".He put some "Rumdan/Ramdan" theory and said that word Ramadaan was revealed as "Ramdan/Rumdan" but failed to provide proof and went on circumventing.Now he says he provided the proof.
Now he is again persistantly evading the question and will say that he provided the proof.
Delusional disorder has no Remedy.

unknownuser

Peace all,

Who assigned the first "qibla", when, and what direction was it?

Jews always try to face Jerusalem and will never turn?

The Incredible Jerusalem Compass
http//www.jewishsoftware.com/products/The_Incredible_Jerusalem_Compass_813.asp?bhcd2=1133071212

"Most Diaspora Jews face the traditional Mizrah (East) when they pray,...Christian Zionists who love Israel also have the habit of praying towards Jerusalem - or towards where they think Jerusalem is."

(&#1640

2198 There is no sin on you if you seek the Bounty of your Lord. Then when you leave 'Araf?t, remember All?h at the Mash'ar-il-Har?m. And remember Him as He has guided you, and verily, you were, before, of those who were astray.

Where/what is Mash'ar-il-Har?m?

Anyone ? is the above a state-of-mind or physical place?

unknownuser

I don't know about that but presumably God used verses 107-109 of surah 9 as space filler?

Jack

In any case if masjid al haram is a physical place than the Ka'aba fails the 'purity' test. Remember Abraham and his son had to 'purify' it, and kaaba is far from pure.

Allen

I don't know about that but presumably God used verses 107-109 of surah 9 as space filler?

You mean these verses are "Just to fill in the blanks"????.Nothing els??

9107
9108
9109
LOL

Samia

Salaam Nun

Thanks for your reply. Do you mean that God assigned Jeurasalem a "qibla" to the Jews?

As for " mash3ar",, if you do a search for the root sheen 3ain raa, there are two original meanings hair and knowledge/comprehension; milestone.

could be the noun of place of the , plural of cow or she camel fattened for slaughter and given for free

(from al-Qaamuuaul Muheet)

or it could be a noun (masdar meemi), in this case it will be knowledge
Of course I found meanings as ( activities of hajj or places such as Muzdalifa...), but no linguistic support for that. The dictionary even explains that a place would be called "mash3ar" if it has a lot of trees and wild animals in it

(From Lisaanul 3arab)
.

Allen

In any case if masjid al haram is a physical place than the Ka'aba fails the 'purity' test. Remember Abraham and his son had to 'purify' it, and kaaba is far from pure.

Purity test ?? what is that just curious to know?

unknownuser

You mean these verses are "Just to fill in the blanks"????.Nothing els??

9107
9108
9109
LOL

? - A symbol used to denote a question. )

Allen

Salaam Nun

Of course I found meanings as ( activities of hajj or places such as Muzdalifa...), but no linguistic support for that. The dictionary even explains that a place would be called "mash3ar" if it has a lot of trees and wild animals in it

(From Lisaanul 3arab)
.

What do you mean by Linguistic support ??

.
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Would you please your 'Linguistic support" ??
Secondly Actual Quranic Verse is

2198
The Actual word used is " "
Would you please let us know

"Alif -Laam " is used for what purposes in Arabic ??
What is meant by "Alif-laam "used in this word mean ??

Samia

By linguistic support, I mean the dictionary takes you from the root towards the words derived from it, and you understat nd the relation between a meaning and a root, even if it is remote. I mentioned "milestones" as a word related to one of the two meanings of "sheen 3ain raa" knowledge. I also mentioned "sha3eera" as related to "sha3r" as stated by the dictionary. What's the relation of "Muzdalifa" to any of these meanings?

Forget about the alif laam; mash3ar is singular.
Let's look at your quotes from the dictionaries

shi3aar means sign. This is not the word mentioned in the verse.
Further more, when it is plural it is the plural of a completely different word hair

From Lisaanul 3arab

.

It is not the plural of "sha3iira", which is not the word mentioned, either.

Your quote then states (al mash3ar is the milestone and something worshiped(??) .) That's what I call (no linguistic support), and I mean the word "worshipped". On what basis is "shrine" part of this root? How is this meaning linguistically supported?

This is one of two cases where "mash3ar" is mentioned in all of your cut-and-paste, stating that it means milestone (correct) and shrine (clearly inserted without any basis)

And as I already mentioned, the other occurrence for mash3ar is that it means Muzdalifa...why Muzdalifa? Why not 3arafa or Mena? Why would it be a "milestone"? Or is it a "worshipped" place and I don't know? What's special about it and what's its importance in the "hajj" apart from collecting pebbles from it to stone the devil ?

Allen

?

Forget about the alif laam; mash3ar is singular.
Let's look at your quotes from the dictionaries

Why to forget it ?
" Mash3ar" has two characteristics
-preceded by Alif -laam
-followed by 'adjective " haraam
Alif - laam has its own meaning when attached to nouns;
I repeat;
-What are different types of "Alif - laam "?
-What meaning among them do you thing in this phrase??
Your problem of linguistic support will be solved once you answer these two questions.

ignoramus

salam brother Allen

i appreciate you are trying to make a point, but it seems to get stretched out by playing cat and mouse. why don't you provide your answers for all of us to benefit from your knowledge and understanding.

if sister Samia (or anyone else) disagrees, she could still retort.

thank you.

salam

Allen

salam brother Allen

i appreciate you are trying to make a point, but it seems to get stretched out by playing cat and mouse. why don't you provide your answers for all of us to benefit from your knowledge and understanding.

if sister Samia (or anyone else) disagrees, she could still retort.

thank you.

salam

Dear Ignoramus
This is not question of cat/mouse play.This is really very important linguistic problem.Saying "forget about it " is
-height of ignorance ,the person saying this , does not know the fundamentals of a language
-or it is an attempt to befool others by hiding the intricacies.
Every language has its rules connotations attached to certain uses.
I give you an example in English.
There is a lot of difference
-English
-The English

There is a lot of difference between these pairs of sentences
1
He went to school
He went to the school.
2
He went to hospital
He went to the hospital
3
He went to sea.
He went to the sea.
In English capitalization has impact on the meaning e.g.
-god
-God
Look up in grammar books and dictionaries and verify them.
Same is the case with Arabic language.Saying "forget about it" is not the proper way to interpret the Quran verses.
Just a hint;
-The word 'kitaab" means "any book"
But when Quran uses it as "Al-kitaab" ,do you really mean "any book" lying on your shelf?? .It will definitely mean some specific book and you will translate it as "The book" not "any book'.
I will comment further once I get reply from her.

Samia

Dear Ignoramus
This is not question of cat/mouse play.This is really very important linguistic problem.Saying "forget about it " is
-height of ignorance ,the person saying this , does not know the fundamentals of a language
-or it is an attempt to befool others by hiding the intricacies.
Every language has its rules connotations attached to certain uses.
I give you an example in English.
There is a lot of difference
-English
-The English

There is a lot of difference between these pairs of sentences
1
He went to school
He went to the school.
2
He went to hospital
He went to the hospital
3
He went to sea.
He went to the sea.
In English capitalization has impact on the meaning e.g.
-god
-God
Look up in grammar books and dictionaries and verify them.
Same is the case with Arabic language.Saying "forget about it" is not the proper way to interpret the Quran verses.
Just a hint;
-The word 'kitaab" means "any book"
But when Quran uses it as "Al-kitaab" ,do you really mean "any book" lying on your shelf?? .It will definitely mean some specific book and you will translate it as "The book" not "any book'.
I will comment further once I get reply from her.

Try not to dwell in bad conjecture. When I said "forget about alif laam", I followed it with "mash3ar is a singular", because the dictionari(es) you copy from treat it as plural and use it as "mashaa3ir".

From this quote, it says (the plural of almash3ar is mashaa3ir), so the plural does not carry an alif laam. Then it keeps talking about "sha3aa'ir", and although it does not explicitly say it is the plural of "mash3ar", the dictionary gives the impression that it is the plural of mash3ar. Another dictionary gives the singular of "sha3aair" as "sha3eera"!!!

This confusion is more important to solve than discussing why there is an alif laam.

So, what's the importance of the alif laam to the meaning, if we cannot decide what the plural of mash3ar is or what plural is mashaa3ir, or wheather "mash3ar" can take a plural or not?

Allen

Try not to dwell in bad conjecture. When I said "forget about alif laam", I followed it with "mash3ar is a singular", because the dictionari(es) you copy from treat it as plural and use it as "mashaa3ir".

From this quote, it says (the plural of almash3ar is mashaa3ir), so the plural does not carry an alif laam. Then it keeps talking about "sha3aa'ir", and although it does not explicitly say it is the plural of "mash3ar", the dictionary gives the impression that it is the plural of mash3ar. Another dictionary gives the singular of "sha3aair" as "sha3eera"!!!
This confusion is more important to solve than discussing why there is an alif laam.

So, what's the importance of the alif laam to the meaning, if we cannot decide what the plural of mash3ar is or what plural is mashaa3ir, or wheather "mash3ar" can take a plural or not?

Why are you avoiding my question of Alif --laam ??
You are circumventing as Ayaman did in his/her posts.
Please answer these two questions
-What are different types of Alif -laam ?
-What type of Alif -laam is being used in this phrase?
You are avoiding it because you want to deceive the reading with your self concoted ,preconceived ideas.What is stopping you ??

Samia

One type