Noah, I am losing you! Before we agreed that THEOCRACY IS THE RULE of GOD as opposed to DEMOCRACY which is the RULE of the PEOPLE.
Now you are saying THEOCRACY is implementing whatever system suits individual on a personal level! This is not THEOCRACY is it?
Indeed it is. i am governed by God allready, so im allready living in a state of theocracy. What other people do with what they think God wants them to do is their business.
Noah this is nonesense. In a society of Individuals we need set of rules that everyone can live by and these rules must be such that they serve us a society best.
Its just not happening like that, nor was it ever intended. I am bound by no contract to my knowledge that binds me to respect democracy. There are rules, there are thousands of rules, does this make people behave any better? not at all. Its merely an illusion.
In THEOCRACY these Rules are from Scripture (or written in stone like the ten commandments by the hand of God). In democracy the people decide on a set of rules that serves them best as a society.
Im down with the 10 commandments, no problem.
While you do that Noah, let us SANE people try to make democracy just little better so that everyone in a society can be free to implement their own "system" between their "God" and themselves within themselves and yet we can still have a government by the people for the people.
Are you implying that i am insane? Does that go for everybody that doesnt agree with your lala view on democracy?
call me when you succeed. because so far the people has been governed by just about anyone but themself. Its nice to hear you talk about what the democratic intention are, its just not reality.
This is what DEMOCRACY is about, not ruling by force but by consent of the people.
and concent they will get, even if it means lying, distorting and propagading. So are the people making choices based on actual knowledge or on whatever whims flys in the political arena atm.
I don't understand you Noah. What are you talking about? How to govern ouserself as a society or how to govern ourself as an individual - i.e implementing a system on a personal level? If latter is the case then I say to you No man is an Island. We are part of the whole. We will always need rules to govern ouselves as a society.
So you claim. 10.000 years of known history speaks against you. All systems turn tyrant, the real question is why?
Yes, that is good analogy. Democracy allows talent of every individual to flourish.
Given that they agree to what the champions of democracy or masters that be , think.
And the better the ideas those ideas will become used more and more.
Given that they suit the overall agenda, og making a few richer at the expense of everyone else.
And if you look at the growth of the PC from its beginings then you can realise how this "hodpodge" of technology is bringing humanity to closer together...
And at the same time spawned and endless amount of unsovlable problems. So the tool that was meant to speed up our processing in fact, counted in man hours. slows us down. Why? because it was a hodgepodge to begin with, and it is still a hodgepodge, alltho a faster one. Not better, just faster. And the same thing will happen, and is happening with democracy.
It does serve mankind best. Democractic governments are more sucessful than the DICTATORIAL governments. Just compare North Korea and South Korea. While Norht Korea sings praises hymns to its "Great Leader" in poverty, south Korea is making a sucess of itself. So more democracies we have the better it will serve humanity. Can you not see this?
I refuse, unlike you, to overlook the cost that all this "prosperity" comes along with. It does not break even. So shjould i justbe happy that i am on the right side of the fence, or should i be insulted that nobody else seems to mind sailing along in the blood of others.
And this compares to DICTATORS sending millions to gulags to be tortured and maimed?
Doesnt it? fraudulent laws, designed to put people that are not criminals behind bars. To exploit cheap labour? Who cares if the system kills them or not, they are still being battered often, and brutality is an everyday happening.
Yes, thats right! You can top yourself. You can drink yourself to death! You can free to have as many body piercings as you like even though the metals will poison your body and kill you. You are free to smoke tobacco although it causes cancer. Even with these freedoms you are not happy. But you want to smoke weed and thats the freedom you desire so go and make it legal.
WRONG...no one had the right to make it illegal to begin with. Im am to change NOTHING!
And if there is enough support for it to be legal then it will be made legal and thats how democracy works. And if you can't make it legal in the country you live DEMOCRACY allows the freedom for you to leave it. So perhaps know Amstradam? The Pot is legal there!
But the financial fraudulent system is the same. Its impossible to escape it as its implementet throughout the world. Why do you think that we have a world bank Lote tree?
Prison is not a holiday inn. Prison is a punishment!
So its fair to punish crimes not commited? who is the victim of pot smoking? who is the victim of going bankrupt (yes that will get you to prison these days) etc..
Whats wrong prisoners giving their labour for free to the community they have hurt by their crime? Prison is not a holiday destination. Its a punishment.
Problem is. too many of them are not even criminals.
We have gone from discussing DEMOCRACY to definition of crime!
What next Noah?
You brought up the gulags. i demonstrated how there is gulags in a democracy, we just call t something else, by changin lawfull definitions of a criminal. Remember, its not facsism when WE do it.
You compare millions dying at the hands of the DICTATOR to above?
No but i easily compare it to millions dying at the hands of democracy and foorporate fascism.
Still its nothing like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, North Korea or Iran is it?
When you compare bad to worse, bad will look good. It just doesnt make bad good enough. sorry your logic is flawed.
No, Noah. You have no Idea what you have got!
I suggest you go and live in Pakistan for a while Noah. Perhaps you might have a different perspective.
Im not interrested in living in pakistan, i have no connection to the culture there. I see more posabilites than 2 lote tree. To me its not either pakistan or London. I have the option of opting out. Wich i did.
In a theocracy or democracy you have no chance of changing the government peacefully!
In a theocracy i have no government above me.
I am baffled -(
and stubborn too, but dont worry i still like you Lote Tree
David Ike also has views like you so don't feel alone. Two is company, three is a crowd -)
And and so does alex jones, Jordan Maxwell, Eric jon Phelps, and a holw lot of other people. What are you trying to say?
No, I don't believe in conspiracies.
So there is no iraq war now?
There are no shadowy masters at work in this world. All I can see is that some people are motivated by greed and power
Excactly!...that is it!
and others are motivated by compassion and love.
i sure hope so
It is greed and power that motivates the unscruplous amongst us. But greed can be overcome by cultivating and nurturing compassion in others and ourselves.
You have history against you. the only way to be sure greed does not become dangerous to the whole human family is by limiting its chances to go global. The more centralised the power, the easyer it is to misuse on a grand scale.
But just as there are few unscrupolous amongst us there are many of people of impeccable integrity too.
Unfortunally they are not as "popular" as the greedy ones. Money makes freinds (while you have them)
This is irrelvant to our discussion in how we govern ourselves as a society! Do you not get this?
No it is very important, dont you get this. Dont you get how democracy easily becomes a dangerous tool of chaos and destruction. So what if the people within the democracy have a jolly time, it is at the expense of others, and that is by all means unacceptable.
You say "Rather as the manifestation of the heagelian principle", in another words he unwittingly! Where is the twist?
It is possible to admire certain principles without having invented them youself....say...like democracy. Im not sure that he thought it would fail. Those who gave hjim the money to succed, knew it would fail. they pretty much counted on it, but needed an axis of evil, to have a constant "them and us" situation handy whenever something needed a smoke screen. Oldest trick in the book, that is. Today the axis of evil is the arabs, next it will be someone else. The status quo will remeain intact.
DEMOCRACY is getting to reality.
interresting. You have made a bad case so far.
Conspiracy are the products of a "smoked" mind.
So there is no war in Iraq. Hitler didnt burn the reichstag, nero didnt set rome ablaze? ...all these things was claimed upfront by "conspiracy theorists" trying to warn people of what was comming.
And I am not asking you to believe in democracy Noah. This is nothing to do with religion but a pragmatic approach in how to govern ourself as a society of individuals.
You have to believ in a syustem to abide by it. I dont belive in democracy, its flaws are too obvious and its dangers to apparent atm.
There are also people of integrity too Noah eg. People like Tony Ben.
yes, im not saying there are no good people. In fact i have praised them earlyer. But i find their work to be in vain.
Perhaps you should read other books instead of Eric Von Daniken and David Ike?
Perhaps you should assume less. i have never even read a book of any of the afore mentioned lol.
You never get tired of guessing do you? it is lack of actual data that makes you do it, isnt it ?
They have no political power. And in time they will dissappear as figure heads too!
Hello the world called, they miss you there. Money IS political power. And they will go nowhere. Even in the places oficially free of the royals, they still hold a favoured position and has the right to certain amounts in recompense. Recompense for what ?what their theaving murderous familys have raped the country for 100's of years?
What is surpressed always comes out. Nothing remains hidden. Just like Auschwitze and the Gulags revelaed their deadly secrets!
Yes, but it took people willing to do a lot of footwork at a time where nobody belived them, and said they were into "smoked" conspiracy "theorys".
Agatha Christie reader? You mean miss marple mysterys. I see you have fondness for fictions!
wow that was cheap. You watch BBC right? so likewise!
Perhaps that is what it is? Like Victorian Reform clubs? Where not only men of wealth and power met but also inventors, merchants etc?
You are free to belive what you want. I think its more likely that the club IS what we claim it is. And when they could deny it nomore by discrediting its opponents as conspiracy kooks. it goes public and introduce itself as a freindly cigar club for rich influential people.
Sort of like what happened to skull and bones. The brother hood that 10 years ago proudly called themself the brotherhood of death. When people started to wonder why all too many leaders of "the free world" came from something called the brotherhood of death. Suddenly it went public, and sold itself off as a freindly cigarclub for rich influential people. Same story when the bohemian grove was caught red handed.
At first, it doesnt exsists. if pressured enough, it in fact does excists, but its all just fun and games......riiiiiight!
How did these people get into position of power? Did they work hard and make a lot of money? Where they inventors like vacuum cleaner maker Mr. Dyson. He is now billionaire. So he has lot of money, power and influence? - is that wrong?
When its used to manipulate to keep a favorable position. yes it is. it is wrong. I do not envy enyone their succes, but when peple use their position to conspire against me and my own. we have a problem.
Don't flatter yourself too much Noah, it makes you look impressive but you are not -)
guessing again huh? never gets old that.
Have you heard of Dr Yunis of Mirco Credit fame?
indeed i have, ISRA implemented the system. Its a great idea.
You talented enough to invent something that went against the big bank's philosphy of letting to the credit worthy. It is these people will change the system not people like you.
thesse people will change squat. Its the same with the german gutegeld, the danish artmoney, the dutch hav an alternative aswell. If it gets too popular rather than the established money, you will see it made unlawful over night. as simple as that. And my german freinds whom our group helped with the gutegeld system was directly told so by the national bank.
So in other words, its ok as fun and a distraction to make people think they have freedom, but the fact are...they havent. only as much as the powers will hand them.
But ofcourse you couldnt have known any of this, that i am foallowing these alternative systems very closely. because you didnt ask me, yust just assumed again
Don't worry if it is not good for mankind then it will be changed without any fan fare, just we have changed many things in the past. So sleep easily Noah -)
It has been in function since 8.may 1668, and so far nothing has changed. it has been dangerous since day one, but especially in the reformation of it during the 1860's. Thats where it became a real beast. So youre not right. It is not changing because someone has too much too loose by doing so.
Then know that monetary system is not simple as printing new bank notes!
I dont get what you are trying to say?
Be positive Noah. Believe in the human spirit.
I do strongly, that is why i belive there is no need for anyone to govern us. that the benefits are outweighed by the problems.
If i didnt belive in the human spirit i would suggest democracy, or some other tyrant system.
Democracy is a next experiment Noah. We are not sure how it will work out. But one thing is for sure, there will be no return to Kingship, Dictatorship or even theocracy!
thats what you think. there will be a return to all of those. because eventually people will realise that what serves them best is small local systems where people gather with likeminded, rather than trying to homogenise the whole world into a greyish blob, where all are the same.
No chap. This is not what you have said. You Theocracy is rule of God but now its not. Its now about you and your God.
as it has been the whole time. again. yo unever bother to ask what people actually think, so im not going to give anything away. i will let you assume and make a fool of yourelf all you want. But it really only takes a single question to prevent it. You assumed what my view on theocracy was, rather than asking me. so i just went along...
You can sit down Noah and have a rest -)
thank you
For every person like your dad there are also decent people working to make the world better.
Problem is...my dad is a good man, so are many of his freinds that i know. Good men accept this system aswell, because if it aint broke too bad, dont fix it. exploit it.
Thank you very much. I like reality best -)
Hell yeah..your very own reality.
Regards
