Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
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Peace Muawiya,
Because it is exact formula, so it is easy for us to see/judge that c^2=a^2+b^2 is a miracle
Exactly. Because it is an exact formula we can see and judge that it is a c^2=a^2+b^2 pattern. We can plug whatever parameters into this formula and get a predictable result. This is the definition of a pattern. So now knowing this, please tell us the formula (i.e., the pattern) for Code 19.
The fact is that there is no formula. Each 19 divisible in Code 19 has its own formula and no Code 19 calculation uses the same forumla twice. So there is no pattern. It is simply whatever haphazard formula works out of the thousands upon thousands of different possibilities.
So this would be like Code 19 hunters trying a^2+b^2 = 19 (for example if a and b are the count of a certain letters, words or verse, etc.) and finding out that it is false so they keep trying a + b or a x b or ab or ba or Gematrical value G(a)b or G(b)a or aG(b) or bG(a) or G(a)G(b) or G(b)G(a) or G(a)+G(b), etc. etc. As you can see, just with two parameters there can be so many different combinations. Code 19 hunters use thousands upon thousands of formulas and data sets. Out of those thousands and thousands of different possibilities, 1 out of 19 will be divisible by 19 anyway. This is what they and Dr. Khalifa presented to you and they hid all their failed trials. What I am saying is an indisputable fact. Even Edip, who was involved first hand in Dr. Khalifa's work, never contested this. He only contested my request to share the failed trials.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
PS PLEASE SHOW HOW MANY TRAILS NEED TO COUNT 57Q
This is exactly what I am talking about. You are only telling us about the successful trial for counting Q. You are not telling us about the many failed trials in counting the letters of the words TH, TSM, TS, etc., where no matter how hard 19ers try they can't get a 19 divisible.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
This is exactly what I am talking about. You are only telling us about the successful trial for counting Q. You are not telling us about the many failed trials in counting the letters of the words TH, TSM, TS, etc., where no matter how hard 19ers try they can't get a 19 divisible.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace
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Thoe the number 19 seem to be useful for protecting the count of the word " God" in the Quran, it is not. God be glorified High above
all that they set up. The Mention of God in verses 9129 overides Rashads falshood. 118,124 and 1274 is not a multiple of 19. God be
glorified above all that they describe.In verse 9129 is the command that God is enuff for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust, and He is the Lord of the
great throne.The truth has come while falshood has perished. Falshood is always bound to perish.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597255.msg185900#msg185900
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Dear Anna
Those people who are described by 7146 are fighting against "one of the greatest signs" just to justify the flame and smoke of hell in their imagination. If you wish to educate yourself about the real problem of these ingrates and the incredible divine prophecy, please read the following arguments. Here is a list
Which One Do You See Hell or Miracle?
http//www.19.org/index.php?id=14,175,0,0,1,0salam edip, all,
sure there are prophecies in the qur'an. the great qur'an does prophesy about the FITNAT19.
ar-Ra`d 013036
1336the ayat above informs us very clearly that there were/are/will be some people/groups/parties who (will) deny/reject part of the book. let's see if these people can be identified!
at-Taubah 009124
9124at-Taubah 009125
9125the above 2 ayat are talking about a group of people who were or are harboring doubts about sura 9 (hathihi) in particular, and those with a sickness in their hearts have increased in their obscenity. they also talk about the believers whose faith have increased.
further more, the great qur'an (in 825) warns the transgressors against a FITNAT that will come specifically for them.
al-Anfal 008025
825now, isn't you and your group that constantly and repeatedly argue that something is wrong with sura 9 because there is no basmala (per your claim)? it is you, whether you deny it or not. this is also and undeniable fact based on sura 74 which declares very clearly 19 (number itself or counting) to be nothing but a FITNAT for the rejectors/deniers.
and so edip, one can clrarly see who the rejectors of allah's signs are, and those with a disease in their hearts can be well identified.
indeed witnessing such a great prophecy (seeing how the rejectors have been subjected to the FITNAT19) will increase in their faith. praise be to allah for this great prophecy.
sincerely
khodr -
As verse 7431 states, hypocrites and unappreciative people will not understand the implication of 19 after its prophecy is fulfilled. It is a test, which will distinguish those who choose to progress from those who choose to regress.
Currently, I do not have much time to debate with those who reject the great sign and prophecy... In fact, since last 25 years I have debated it with many people; privately or publicly, on TV or Internet, via articles or books...
I read Bahnam's statements about 1974 and I could not understand exactly what he was trying to say. As for me, I have no doubt that the time of discovery is chosen by God and it is a great prophecy
The prophecy of 19 is in chapter 74 and it was fulfilled in 1974! Some people, in order to blind themselves to this and many other great prophecies, might question the origin of 1974, as some people might question the origin of some Arabic words used in the Quran.... But, the following fact remains If God used an arbitrary human language, the language of mushrik Arabs to deliver his message, then the same God could use an arbitrary but popularly used date to show his power over the timing of his prophetic miracle. Period.
For Ayman and his ilk, I would like to re-remind the following verse 7146
Peace,
Edip -
As verse 7431 states, hypocrites and unappreciative people will not understand the implication of 19 after its prophecy is fulfilled. It is a test, which will distinguish those who choose to progress from those who choose to regress.
Currently, I do not have much time to debate with those who reject the great sign and prophecy... In fact, since last 25 years I have debated it with many people; privately or publicly, on TV or Internet, via articles or books...
I read Bahnam's statements about 1974 and I could not understand exactly what he was trying to say. As for me, I have no doubt that the time of discovery is chosen by God and it is a great prophecy
The prophecy of 19 is in chapter 74 and it was fulfilled in 1974! Some people, in order to blind themselves to this and many other great prophecies, might question the origin of 1974, as some people might question the origin of some Arabic words used in the Quran.... But, the following fact remains If God used an arbitrary human language, the language of mushrik Arabs to deliver his message, then the same God could use an arbitrary but popularly used date to show his power over the timing of his prophetic miracle. Period.
For Ayman and his ilk, I would like to re-remind the following verse 7146
Peace,
Edipmr. edip,
debate, cyber boxing match, brawl.... etc. not interested.
what i am interested in is speak the truth.
as for reminding me of 7146, i accept the ayat and i put my trust in allah to judge me whether or not i am a mutakbbir.
i find peace of mind in that and in the book of allah including the follwing ayatal-Baqarah 002002
22al-Imran 003003
33al-Imran 003007
37ash-Shura 042014
4214Fussilat 041052
4152ar-Ra`d 013036
1336at-Taubah (Repentance) 9124
9124at-Taubah (Repentance) 9125
9125al-Imran (The Family of Imran, The House of Imran) 3119
3119al-Hijr 015009
159Fussilat 041042
4142you know mr. edip, the primary difference between us is that one person puts his faith and trust for salavation in #19, while the other puts his trust in allah and believes in the whole book.
sincerely
khodr -
Peace bro "ayman",
Again lets say all the initial counts are arbitary and/or wrong except we found the two chapters which contained the letter "qaf" in their initials, namely chapter hamim ain sin qaaf and chapter qaf both contain the letters "qaaf" 57 times DESPITE ONE CHPTER BEING ALMOST TWICE AS LONG AS THE OTHE and 57+57=114 and 114 being the chappters in the Quran and Q being the first letter of the word Quran. Even if we had not found any other significant ZMNs with other initials would this alone not be significant at all? GOD Bless! -
Peace everyone.
Whilst I like a good debate, I don't think that this can productively go anywhere. Surely we need to agree to disagree on this subject and move on to more important things. By one person proving a point over another, are we helping the human cause in any way? Sure, it's the understanding of the quran, but all this energy could be put into more useful pursuits. The basics about salat we haven't reached a concensus on yet. The world energy crisis is getting worse day by day, yet we spend time persuing these debates which don't do anything.
I may be out of turn, for that my apologies. But please people, let's agree to disagree and move on...
d
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"Oh Lord ...Code 19 making You as Numerologist. Please forgive them.. They are speaking out of ignorance as if they have found something to prove You.You are unseen and defining You with seen double digit Numeric number 19. We know You are testing them . By this time any one read this mail ... millions stars are created by You and die at Your command millions things are under at Your order. A tsunami can be created or eartquake is created by You . Such a Greatness and power, You have.. instead of pondering You.. people have started pondering on 19... Oh Lord they are wasting Zikr. Oh Lord You are the most meriful.. Please forgive them... And You know whom to forgive... Oh Lord Please forgive me if anything wrong in this mail"
Its ridiculous.. If we keep my name which falls as 19 as per Numerology...Then Shall we step into heaven ?
"Oh Lord You only know to whom you have to wisdom and clarity with reality"
After checking Numerology 19 = 1+ 9 = 10 = 1+0= 1... Its number one..ie One GOD for such a simple truth people are debating for years?.
There are so countless things Quran to Understand... But they are standing under 19 and counting... Luckily I am skipping this Code 19 and if we involve too much we will forget GOD and carried off with evil and start calculating along with devil.
Now we have to decide as we need one GOD or start counting.
Love
Jango O0 -
peace
Should we ignore the one God's signs?
what if this is a positive sign?
how do we judge?
reason? logic?
surely with something.
Peace be with you Jango
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No, we should not ignore the signs of God.
However, there are 'firm' signs we can hold on to. The ones which are not so firm - why spend valuable time debating. IF they are absolutely necessary for our guidance, why is it not clear. I'm sure you agree with me that the quran is a clear record. If something is unclear, don't ignore it, but stop wasting time debating. One person sees something the other does not. You cannot just change someone's viewpoint. My writing this now is a prime example of this. Some will see me as trying to 'cover' a possible sign.
You are alive. That is a sign
You hopefully have health. That is a sign
You have food in the fridge. That is a sign
You are not afraid for your life. That is a signIt is a sign to act and do something for the rest of humanity which doesn't have these things.
Believing or not believing in code 19 is imho not a necessity. I believe in God. I have faith in God. I trust in God. That is enough. I'm not ignoring code 19, just putting it to one side whilst I try and help someone.
This debating is polarising groups of people. This splitting into 'I believe in code 19' and 'I don't agree with it' is wrong. To be honest, who cares? There are more pressing concerns in the world than these and we should hold firm to the quran and try to find commonalities and celebrate those. If we disagree on something, then fine, we disagree. I don't agree with everyones opinion, but it doesn't matter, what matters is that we believe in one God and we do good works, surely that is enough.
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I don't agree with everyones opinion, but it doesn't matter, what matters is that we believe in one God and we do good works, surely that is enough.
Well said, I agree with your posts. But then again, what do you expect on a discussion forum
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Of course, and there will be those who think they're benefiting others when in reality they are actually being destructive. I think on a discussion forum though, it's hard to stop the spurious debates since everyone has a different opinion and they think they have the right of it. My thoughts however at this moment in time seem to coincide with
The world energy crisis is getting worse day by day, yet we spend time persuing these debates which don't do anything.
peace
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Peace Darcus,
This debating is polarising groups of people. This splitting into 'I believe in code 19' and 'I don't agree with it' is wrong. To be honest, who cares?
Only those who believe in Code 19 care. Those who don't agree with it naturally don't care. Personally, I don't care about Code 19 no more than I care about Hadiths or other falsehoods. In fact, much like Sunnis who never contest that Bukhari shared only a small percentage out of hundreds of thousands of Hadiths, in the course of our debate Edip never, not even once, contested that Khalifa only shared a small percentage of his trials that were successful and he hid thousands of failed trials. Had Khalifa shared all his trials then everyone would have been able to see right away that the success to failure ratio is about 1 in 19, which is the natural occurrence of 19 divisibles in any random sample, and no one would have wasted any time on Code 19.
Peace,
Ayman
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I totally understand where you're coming from Ayman, totally. I also understand where Edip is coming from too. But it just reminds me of the time when I was butting heads with the local barelwis about their shirk that I forgot I was doing the same. Pride started kicking in and I started doing those things I despised others for. Sure, debating is good and fun most of the time. Something I came across some time ago - 'confirmation bias'. Interesting concept. I think we should all at sometime look it up and remind ourselves of it's effects. This goes out to everyone, 19er or not. We will always 'find' and accept things which confirm how we feel. We cannot be truly objective without keeping this in mind at all times when making an opinion. If we are mindful of ourselves, we can walk upright and in security of our faith, regardless of what that is.
It all leads to the one true God. I don't mean to trivialise this subject but seriously. How does proving code 19 as true or false benefit mankind? If I agree with you Ayman it is because it confirms my beliefs as a scientist that code 19 does not stand up to scrutiny and ALL data true or false should be shared so that objective conclusions can be reached by people.If we hypothesise that code 19 is true and the only data we provide is positive, it will mislead. IF that is truly the case then the method of reaching that data must be analysed and the results independently reproduced so as to negate confirmation bias.
If we hypothesise that code 19 is false and the data proves this, and the EXACT same criteria for proving it true then the method and its results are in error. If I were to compare two exactly opposing experiments and all things are controlled, then I should reach the same conclusion irrespective of the hypothesis.Now, we sit here talking about 19 this and 19 that, even I'm involved and I don't care. I just care that we waste time on this. There are some serious brains on this forum, why don't we all join forces and deal with the bigger problems. We are free-minds after all, or are we just looking for confirmation?