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In depth study on Salaat in Quran

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  • L Offline
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    loxbox13
    wrote on last edited by
    #121

    You "wise" guys are shunning away from a very important point here. The only chapter in dispute here is chapter 9. No one has ever had any doubts about the integrity of any other part of The Qur'aan. Historically, only the number of verses in chapter 9 has been in question, not any other part of The Qur'aan.

    Peace,
    Khalil

    I like it when u guys don't say the truth, it' not historically, it's in the hadith , why not saying in hadith and say historically ? didn't u know that not only verses 9127 9128 are doubt? the enemies of islam tried to throw doubt on the quran by inventing many stories as to how the quran was collected , the disputes etc... and u guys are falling in the same way rashad khalifa fall, just like the enemies bukhari etc.. did in the past
    take your references from the hadith to take off any verse from the quran, as did rashad khalifa
    taking verses out because of hadith, praying 5 times because of hadiths , or u just say we found our ancestors praying 5 times ? oh, it came from abraham

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      1CELOSTNOWFOUND
      wrote on last edited by
      #122

      Peace All

      Can someone please tell me what difference the inclusion / exclusion of 9127 & 128 make to the message of the Quran?

      Imraan

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        loxbox13
        wrote on last edited by
        #123

        Peace All

        Can someone please tell me what difference the inclusion / exclusion of 9127 & 128 make to the message of the Quran?

        Imraan

        There is a big difference, if the 9127 9128 are false, than the quran is to be rejected as a whole, because Allah sad in one verse that he'll protect it , and the quran written by prophet mohamed himself includes these 2 verses, who is that gonna say we believe in some of the quran and not believe is some ?

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          Asana
          wrote on last edited by
          #124

          @loxbox

          If you tell to the people you protect your house and somebody asks you how do you protect it, what would be your answer??!!.....I?m asking this question because we?re human and this question comes to our mind??..We all should accept /believe in whatever God says and if God proves it to us that His Book is protected would you have problem with it?......Or are you after the way you want or understand to be protected?

          None of you here on this forum can answer what 741-6 mean and what God is telling us there and yet you want tell that if 9128-129 do not belong to the Quran then the whole Quran should be rejected.

          BTW how would you know that prophet wrote down those 2 verses?

          Asana

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            1CELOSTNOWFOUND
            wrote on last edited by
            #125

            Peace loxbox,

            There is a big difference, if the 9127 9128 are false, than the quran is to be rejected as a whole, because Allah sad in one verse that he'll protect it , and the quran written by prophet mohamed himself includes these 2 verses, who is that gonna say we believe in some of the quran and not believe is some ?

            My question was what difference does it make to the message? Is there anything in those verses that contradict the message of the Quran?

            Personally, I don't think they should be removed.

            Imraan

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              1CELOSTNOWFOUND
              wrote on last edited by
              #126

              Peace Asana,

              What is the big mystery about the meaning of 741-6?

              Imraan

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                Asana
                wrote on last edited by
                #127

                Peace ISELOSTNOWFOUND

                Proving through code 19 that those two verses do not belong to the Quran make this huge difference that

                1- Code 19 as miracle of the Quran would reject whatever does not belong to it no matter how good it sounds?.In this way God?s promise is fulfilled.

                2-The claimant of the Code 19 is true and was a messenger of God.

                3-Being Rashad as Messenger of God by bringing divine proof for his messngership brings responsibility to believe in his mission and his message.

                4- As God asks us to trust His messenger therefore purified rituals of Islam should be followed as he purified them.

                5-Nobody beside God can carry the title of Merciful as He introduced Him to us by it to become god beside God?.In this way Prophet Mohammad is not merciful, meaning having no power to intercede on behalf of those who believe in his intercession that 9128 teaches them.

                6-Since Prophet is not merciful as God therefore he?s a human like us and shouldn?t be praised days and nights.

                7-Since prophet doesn?t receive those two attributions given by God in 9128 will wipe out from the mind of majority that he is no different to other messengers of God and should not make distinction ,meaning he?s not above other messengers of God as traditionalist Muslims claim by using this verse for their excuse for their violation?.

                8-And above that we pass the test by witnessing God?s signs by accepting his messenger and His Message delivered through him.

                List is long but Insha-Allah you see the picture now!

                And as for 741-6 is that what or who God is referring to in 741 and why cleaning his or its garment in 744 and what is the uncleanness that should be avoid in 745..and why should not confer favour to acquire more in 746 after all this process of cleanliness and avoiding uncleanness.

                Asana

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                  JSS
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #128

                  In regard to verses that may not belong originally to the Qur'an. I think the possibility must be considered. Corruption is an aspect of humanity. Ritual is a means that rulers use to control the masses.

                  Imagine for a minute that Prophet Muhammad's original message was lenient...think "it is a middle way...religion is easy." But after his death, the ruling elites decided that greater ritual and codification were necessary to keep the sprawling empire from revolution. Had the surahs not yet been collected, it would have been easy for the message to be altered. This does not mean that Prophet Muhammad's genuine message is not buried within. I think it may be and therefore it is important to seek to extract it.

                  Thomas Jefferson felt this way about the bible and sought to find the true teachings of Jesus/Isa within. He said the true words of Jesus shine out as diamonds in a dung hill. He scanned and studied to extract the authentic out of the inauthentic corruption. The result is known as 'The Jefferson Bible," and can be purchased online for those interested.

                  I have wondered if this has happened to the Qur'an, as abrogation does not make sense to me. If the compassionate message is abrogated by the sword verse than why include the verses claimed abrogated in the final compilation at all.

                  If you were a ruler seeking to bend the Qur'an to your own agenda you would naturally insert surahs that claim the text is guarded. That would keep those suspicious of your corruption from challenging you.

                  And getting back to the original point in regard to Salaat, I find the similarity with Zoroastrian ritual interesting and would like to ask other members here who acknowledge that reality, where they think the influence came from. What geographic areas could account for this or do you suppose that Arab Lakhmids who became Hanifs like Muhammad may have contributed to elaborating basic supplications to conform with their former and more formal manner of prayer?

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                  • L Offline
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                    loxbox13
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #129

                    It is not the Quran that is corrupted, for if it is, than allah is a liar and rashad khalifa prouved allah to be a liar who doesn't keep his promise
                    It is people like rashad khalifa who tried to corrupt the quran, but they failed, that is the main reason why they created hadiths, for if they could corrupt the quran, they don't need hadiths, they just insert whatever they want inside

                    It is not the quran that is corrupted, it is the people who are corrupted, they believe something and never consider the point that they might be wrong, like khalifa and his followers, they say god promised to purify the quran, and in the quran god is calling the quran as pure pages descended on a messenger KAREEM
                    the quran is pure, people who have disease in their hearts who try to insert in people's minds that the quran is corrrupted so we all doubt Allah's last revelation

                    they first tried to insert verses of stoning, they couldn't so they created a verse in a hadith
                    they try to throw doubt about verses 127 129 , bukhari couldn't succed , but khalifa came from ashes like a phenix to back up hadiths originators to throw doubt again
                    one think is for sure, the messenger of god brought the quran that is protected by god

                    Islam is corrupted, hadiths are corrupted, everything could be corrupted because allah didn't promise to protect any of these except the quran
                    peace

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                    • L Offline
                      L Offline
                      loxbox13
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #130

                      Peace ISELOSTNOWFOUND

                      Proving through code 19 that those two verses do not belong to the Quran make this huge difference that

                      1- Code 19 as miracle of the Quran would reject whatever does not belong to it no matter how good it sounds?.In this way God?s promise is fulfilled.

                      2-The claimant of the Code 19 is true and was a messenger of God.

                      3-Being Rashad as Messenger of God by bringing divine proof for his messngership brings responsibility to believe in his mission and his message.

                      4- As God asks us to trust His messenger therefore purified rituals of Islam should be followed as he purified them.

                      5-Nobody beside God can carry the title of Merciful as He introduced Him to us by it to become god beside God?.In this way Prophet Mohammad is not merciful, meaning having no power to intercede on behalf of those who believe in his intercession that 9128 teaches them.

                      6-Since Prophet is not merciful as God therefore he?s a human like us and shouldn?t be praised days and nights.

                      7-Since prophet doesn?t receive those two attributions given by God in 9128 will wipe out from the mind of majority that he is no different to other messengers of God and should not make distinction ,meaning he?s not above other messengers of God as traditionalist Muslims claim by using this verse for their excuse for their violation?.

                      8-And above that we pass the test by witnessing God?s signs by accepting his messenger and His Message delivered through him.

                      List is long but Insha-Allah you see the picture now!

                      And as for 741-6 is that what or who God is referring to in 741 and why cleaning his or its garment in 744 and what is the uncleanness that should be avoid in 745..and why should not confer favour to acquire more in 746 after all this process of cleanliness and avoiding uncleanness.

                      Asana

                      Why does rashad khalifa pray like zoroastriens ? i see videos, even though he's an egyptian, but didn't understand arabic, he calls OKKT wich means sister and he translate it as descendant, satan temporary god etc... what kind of a messenger is rashad? a messenger cannot be inspired by a liar god

                      U guys are talking no sense, how come do u think the prophet isn't merciful ?,

                      We all have to be merciful, i can be merciful, u can be merciful etc... allah is not a merciful but THE merciful, there is a big difference, we all have to be bountifull, but allah is THE boutifull, we all have to be gracious , because allah is THE gracious, we alla have to be wise, because allah is THE wise

                      Your claim for these two verses because prophete mohamed is called mercifull as abraham was also called mercifull , is really Bukhari and Tabari style
                      u talkinfg about sourah 74 as a riddle, interpret it the way u want even though god is talking to mohamed directly in this sourah, and u say he's talking to rashad khalifa, U are the bukhari modern

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                        JSS
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #131

                        Dear loxbox

                        I do think you have misinterpreted my intentions and maybe those of some others.
                        We would not be here if we did not value the Qur'an deeply.

                        It may just be though that the genuine uncorrupted Qur'an needs to be differentiated from additions added to the text by those with a political or power agenda. Rulers are notoriously corrupt.

                        It is only because I have observed the deceit within some sects and been lied to by fellow Muslims that I feel strongly about attempting to discover what is true. There was a time when i was naive and believed the traditionalists, but they are not interested in discovering what is true. They have an investment in protecting a mythologized version of events.
                        It is because we do value the Qur'an and take its message to heart that we seek to discover the authentic history of early Islam.

                        Peace to you loxbox. I did not mean to hurt or offend.

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                          loxbox13
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #132

                          Dear loxbox

                          I do think you have misinterpreted my intentions and maybe those of some others.
                          We would not be here if we did not value the Qur'an deeply.

                          It may just be though that the genuine uncorrupted Qur'an needs to be differentiated from additions added to the text by those with a political or power agenda. Rulers are notoriously corrupt.

                          It is only because I have observed the deceit within some sects and been lied to by fellow Muslims that I feel strongly about attempting to discover what is true. There was a time when i was naive and believed the traditionalists, but they are not interested in discovering what is true. They have an investment in protecting a mythologized version of events.
                          It is because we do value the Qur'an and take its message to heart that we seek to discover the authentic history of early Islam.

                          Peace to you loxbox. I did not mean to hurt or offend.

                          No brother, wasn't hurt at all, i just said my opinion, i don't like arrogant people that's all, be it sunni or god aloners or whoever, some I trust only in the quran , but still, it doesn't mean we're better than anyone, and it doesn't mean we hold the truth and the whole truth, i see some hypocrisy sometimes, people pretending to trust in the quran and yet they believe moure the bible writthen by men than the quran, i seen it many times, some people act with arrogance and they don't even reslise it, it's because it was their nature , not the fault of the sects, because it was them who fought the truth by arrogance, and when they converted they keep the same arrogance, and this time they go far because they believe they hold the whole truth.
                          I see some people twisting words from arabic, even though the words are simple and easy to undestand, and yet they go phylosophical and try to push to the extreme, some people cannot accept truth, some people say prophet mohamed was born in jerusalem, without any evidence and they argue as if they were there, some people bring any writting from any scholar and they present it as the truth, I don't understand what is their problem, as for me, i believe prophet mohamed was born in Brasil in south america, and Mecca was originally in New mexico ! I know no one believe me, it's because no matter what they do, they can't change geography, it takes millions of years to change geography, see? the quran says prophet from umiyeen and yet they argue that he was from bani israel, what can u say ? people don't trust the quran and act like they are god aloners and quran alone followers, and I believe most of them act like this because of the hatred in their hearts they keep against sects because they're different than them or they don't folow them, they have more affection for rabbis and prists than simple sunni people , i'm not talking about imams, just the simple people whi don't have the capacity to see the truth yet, i seen some quran alone people making debated in forums, not for debating but arguing with arrogance to ridicule others, that is not the way to show people, actually that is a way to throw people away from quran alone, so u be doing the work of satan without knowing, i'm not talking about u though LOL
                          anyway, i'm not pissed at all, and thanks for your concern
                          Peace

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                          • L Offline
                            L Offline
                            loxbox13
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #133

                            In regard to verses that may not belong originally to the Qur'an. I think the possibility must be considered. Corruption is an aspect of humanity. Ritual is a means that rulers use to control the masses.

                            Imagine for a minute that Prophet Muhammad's original message was lenient...think "it is a middle way...religion is easy." But after his death, the ruling elites decided that greater ritual and codification were necessary to keep the sprawling empire from revolution. Had the surahs not yet been collected, it would have been easy for the message to be altered. This does not mean that Prophet Muhammad's genuine message is not buried within. I think it may be and therefore it is important to seek to extract it.

                            Thomas Jefferson felt this way about the bible and sought to find the true teachings of Jesus/Isa within. He said the true words of Jesus shine out as diamonds in a dung hill. He scanned and studied to extract the authentic out of the inauthentic corruption. The result is known as 'The Jefferson Bible," and can be purchased online for those interested.

                            I have wondered if this has happened to the Qur'an, as abrogation does not make sense to me. If the compassionate message is abrogated by the sword verse than why include the verses claimed abrogated in the final compilation at all.

                            If you were a ruler seeking to bend the Qur'an to your own agenda you would naturally insert surahs that claim the text is guarded. That would keep those suspicious of your corruption from challenging you.

                            And getting back to the original point in regard to Salaat, I find the similarity with Zoroastrian ritual interesting and would like to ask other members here who acknowledge that reality, where they think the influence came from. What geographic areas could account for this or do you suppose that Arab Lakhmids who became Hanifs like Muhammad may have contributed to elaborating basic supplications to conform with their former and more formal manner of prayer?

                            I axtually can't find an easier religion than the quran, so easy that it takes u closer to atheists, well, an atheist who believe in allah lol , as for the rulers, it was the persians i believe who instaured the rituals such as the 5 prayers etc... to keep the sheep il line and to take advantage of the people, but we have the quran, anything added is wrong and not considered true, they succede in making people believe that the quran is obscure and cannot be understood escept by a selection of scholars, even the true scholars were always rejected, some people from the 17 the century preached the quran alone, they were called zindik, some indians from the 50s they only follow the quran alone, they call the khawarij and zindik and ignorant people, when i chatted with some of them, they are amazing, most of them high degrees in colleges , so well educated people , so they made me realise that there is something wrong, i myself was debating here , until i found a post about an idian, folloed the post , the name was Akhtar Sherazi, when i read his articles, i couldn't lie to myself, and started to folow quran alone , so no matter what ruler did , they could't change the quran, that is why we are here exchaging ideas, but still, can't trust anyone, not blindlyn some are here to rpouve the messengership of someone, some are here to look for truth, some are here for general culture, everyone has a goal in his life . the truth is still away i believe, right now we're lost, confused, the choc was too hard to bear, it takes time, the quran is simple , life is simple , live it and hold to the book of god , that is what's important

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                              mmkhan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #134

                              Salaaman bro,

                              U guys are talking no sense, how come do u think the prophet isn't merciful ?,

                              4829
                              4829 Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek the blessings and approval of Allah. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Gospel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.

                              7151
                              7151 He said My Lord, forgive me and my brother, and admit us in Your mercy; and you are the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.

                              9017
                              9017 Then he has become one of those who have believed, and exhort one another to patience, and exhort one another to mercy.

                              May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
                              Mohammed M. Khan

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                                No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #135

                                I axtually

                                Oh wow...

                                Why does rashad khalifa pray like zoroastriens ? i see videos, even though he's an egyptian, but didn't understand arabic, he calls OKKT wich means sister and he translate it as descendant, satan temporary god etc... what kind of a messenger is rashad? a messenger cannot be inspired by a liar god

                                He was far from perfect, just like you and me. It is interesting that Muhammad is not being called out in this forum, while he also made numerous mistakes and wasnt perfect. This is only one of the references

                                661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

                                the quran is simple , life is simple , live it and hold to the book of god , that is what's important

                                That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

                                I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                                  loxbox13
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #136

                                  Oh wow...

                                  He was far from perfect, just like you and me. It is interesting that Muhammad is not being called out in this forum, while he also made numerous mistakes and wasnt perfect. This is only one of the references

                                  661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

                                  That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

                                  That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

                                  U right, Rashad khalifa is perfect, we have to follow rashad khalifa

                                  I read the quran and I see Only prophet Mohamed calling people to follow Quran alone, I never see Rashad khalfa in the quran escept in his own translation
                                  plus why didn't rashad khalifa come with a book like all messengers ?

                                  We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance 5724

                                  Then if they reject thee, so were rejected messengers before thee, who came with clear Signs, and the Scriptures, and the Book of Enlightenment. 3184

                                  And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their messengers with Clear Signs, Scripture and the Book of Enlightenment. 3525

                                  How come all messenger of god came with books except khalifa? I don't listen to u guys anymore because your main point in the religion is to prouve khalifa as messenger, u don't care about the quran , u care about your messenger, khalifa
                                  Prophet mohamed is dead, khalifa is dead, , prophet mohamed has proof in the quran that he is the messenger of god
                                  Rashad khalifa has no proof except his translation and interpretation with the insertion of his name wich made the quranic khalifa the most impure quran that exist , anyway, keep worshipping khalifa, morning and evening

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                                    loxbox13
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #137

                                    Oh wow...

                                    He was far from perfect, just like you and me. It is interesting that Muhammad is not being called out in this forum, while he also made numerous mistakes and wasnt perfect. This is only one of the references

                                    661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

                                    That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

                                    661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

                                    U call this a mistake ? a fault ? he didn't want to eat something so? allah want us to learn from this wisdom, but u keep looking at is as a fault, anuway, can u bring all the faults o the prophet in the quran that rashad found, just for discution.

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                                      Asana
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #138

                                      Loxbox

                                      Why does rashad khalifa pray like Zoroastrians ?

                                      How would you know that Zoroastrians were praying like Prophet Abraham but their prayer got corupted? What evidence do you have by making such an accusation?......Please reflect on 1959.

                                      i see videos, even though he's an egyptian, but didn't understand arabic, he calls OKKT wich means sister and he translate it as descendant,

                                      Well you should first prove it to me that Maryam had a brother then I would accept that she was sister of Harun!

                                      Mother of Maryam wanted boy to send him to Monastery but it turn out to be girl. Question here is why she wanted so badly boy?!!335-36

                                      Satan temporary god etc... what kind of a messenger is rashad? a messenger cannot be inspired by a liar god

                                      I believe you should first find out what god means in the Quran then jump to conclusion accusing Rashad or me?Because I never accepted or understood the Khalifa in 230 is Adam even before i come to know about Dr.Khalifa .
                                      I believe that Satan has certain power that no human beings posses it?.Satan can be anywhere as he wish on this earth but human/Adam as Khalifa can not, then the rest is history.

                                      Satan by God?s permission is allowed to be worshiped as god beside Him. Here in the below the verse has all the talking

                                      Did I not covenant with you, O Children of Adam, that you shall not worship the devil? That he is your most ardent enemy?

                                      Satan is god of the disbelievers?.By saying god it doesn?t mean that he?s an entity like God or has power like God?It means he?s a source of worship for some as god beside God,nothing more nothing less?The only who doesn?t study Quran by asking God to be their Teacher accuse Dr.Khalifa for usage of that word.

                                      U guys are talking no sense,
                                      We all have to be merciful, i can be merciful, u can be merciful etc... allah is not a merciful but THE merciful, there is a big difference, we all have to be bountifull, but allah is THE boutifull, we all have to be gracious , because allah is THE gracious, we alla have to be wise, because allah is THE wise

                                      What would you mean by ?The?? God is called Rahim in the Quran without ?Al? too.

                                      God is called Al-Rahman, would you know anybody can be Rahman too if we take away the ?Al? according to your understanding?

                                      As I said before these two attributions of God only befits God to be attribute with them ?? He introduced Him to us with them and no human being posses them.

                                      Your claim for these two verses because prophete mohamed is called mercifull as abraham was also called mercifull

                                      Sorry Abraham was never called merciful?.The word is Halim not Rahim.

                                      is really Bukhari and Tabari style

                                      u talkinfg about sourah 74 as a riddle, interpret it the way u want even though god is talking to mohamed directly in this sourah, and u say he's talking to rashad khalifa, U are the bukhari modern

                                      We submitters never said or claimed that CH 74 referring to Rashad.Please check your facts first because if you don?t then it would be an accusation.
                                      Verses in 741-6 are talking about some thing that has direct link to the rest of the chapters?A profound study would reveal it for you if God wills.

                                      My questions to you are now, what makes you think that you?ve got the true meaning of the verses and message of the Quran in your hands? Why you?re so anxious people listen to you and your finding for prayer for example?

                                      And please remember we all strive to obey God according to our sincerity ? guidance is in Hands of God?He would guides us to the Path we choose so do not put your faith/understanding above faith of the others and give it a doubt that you might be deeply wrong.
                                      Let?s examine our faith by sharing each others? understanding not looking down on others? understanding. All of us already have been stamped by God as believers or disbelivers.The Truth of God should be followed no matter what.

                                      Asana

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                                        Asana
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #139

                                        Peace progressive

                                        661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

                                        Prophet as human being made/committed mistakes but not as a messenger.

                                        Prophet knew what was Halal or Haram; he only committed sin there by not obeying God and His message.

                                        Prophet as messenger never made mistakes about the message?.he failed to deliver the message or obey it??.it means that he knew the message but failed to deliver it.

                                        If you?d like to say Rashad made mistakes, you should specify which Rashad, as a messenger or as a human beings.

                                        If you?d like to say he as a messenger made mistakes in observing the correct way of Salat, Zakat and Hajj then by all means you?re accusing God that He sent us an astray man as His messenger to lead the prayer ,it means that he deliverd the wrong message,it means that either he misunderstood God's message to deliver it to us or failed to obey God and said it out of his own desire ,which one is?

                                        And if you?d like to say he made mistakes in his translation then again you should know that God sends the messengers with Books to preach?.If he misunderstood the message of the Quran to preach it to us then what?s the point he was sent to preach it to us in first place?What's the point a messenger teach the wrong teaching to us?

                                        I admit that there are grammatical mistakes and some words missed out to be translated or structures of his sentences are not perfect but it doesn?t mean that he misunderstood the message.

                                        If you?d like to find out about those who claim that their understanding is so correct criticizing Rashad in some extend that have taken the lead to issue new way of observing Salat ,Zakat and Hajj then look at the below verse in order to see how bizarre this translation is when it comes to just a simple verse?.I mentioned this to Pierre but he failed to respond?Now it?s your turn .Please look at it and see if you can notice the huge mistake and wrong understanding just over the two words ?.The translation is by Edip&Layth and Monotheist Group copy/paste it too!!

                                        1964 "We are not sent except by the command of your Lord. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. Your Lord was never to forget."

                                        Asana

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                                          #140

                                          661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

                                          U call this a mistake ? a fault ? he didn't want to eat something so? allah want us to learn from this wisdom, but u keep looking at is as a fault, anuway, can u bring all the faults o the prophet in the quran that rashad found, just for discution.

                                          salaam,

                                          When Muhammad started prohibiting what God has made lawful, I wouldn't call it making a mistake; what I would say is that he made a catastrophic mistake

                                          According to the Quran, inventing false interdictions is the most serious sin in Islam and is tantamount to idol worship, as creating and following false prohibitions is like following satan
                                          16116 You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed.
                                          460 Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.

                                          Creating false prohibitions is creating false idols.

                                          There are other verses in the Quran that show that Muhammad made mistakes as well, for instance when he was more afraid of people's judgment that upholding God's laws instead .

                                          3337 Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.

                                          Same thing when Muhammad rejected the poor blind man (801-10) whose heart was filled with faith in God, and frowned, rejecting him, as he was full of reverence and respect for the rich man instead. It is the same tragic mistakes that we see every day around us, when people are impressed by people with money, degrees, power, even though they are very often unrighteous and dishonnest; but poor people with a good heart, God fearing, they treat them like garbage.

                                          Muhammad was a very imperfect human being, like all of us, like Rashad, and it is why messengers are always rejected, as people who are idol worshipers expect infallible humans to be able to believe in them; they invent lies about messengers claiming they don't make mistakes, as sunnis do for instance.

                                          If Muhammad had not stopped making false prohibitions, he would have gone to hell.

                                          Pierre

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