In depth study on Salaat in Quran
-
Salam Pierre
<<<When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.>>>
I totally agree with you there.
Quote<<<Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations..>>>
I pray 5 times a day and have always done so but sorry there is no mark on my forehead and the other submitters who I know.
If the mark is some thing like what you are trying to tell us then those Idolaters who have it on their foreheads are on the right path!
I?m sorry your interpretation not only doesn?t make sense but also is absurd and opens the gate to hypocrites claiming the mark of obedience on their faces/foreheads by deceiving the people?Surely this is not what God means?.I?ve witnessed the sign of prostration on the faces of true believers when the verses of God recite to them ?Their faces change filling with joy and happiness and show their sincerity standing by command of God ,that?s the mark of prostration to me?...Any time I see these believers I feel happy .Quote<<<it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.>>>God specifically tells us observe Al-Salat and recite the Quran ?.These two are to different actions.
In 1778 one verb is for these two actions?You?re interpreting them as one which is wrong?..First God is asking us to do Salat and then reminding us about observing the Quran at Fajr/dawn??.It?s like someone tell you ?shut the door and the window??Are you going to take them as one action?And same applies for 2945 ?In this verse one verb is for reciting the Quran and the other is for Al-Salat??.It means these two are 2 different actions ?.you interpret the verse as reciting the Quran in our Salat?..God is very precise...If He wanted us to read the Quran back to Him then He would have clearly told us ??God specifically tells us not to teach Him our religion.
Quran is for us not for God to be read back to Him?.When we meditate with it God our Teacher teaches us what we need to know but when we observing the Salat we show our obedience to Him by announcing Who He is to us and Him Alone we chosen to be worshiped.Problem with you and those who think like you is that you verbally claim that Rashad was a messenger but claming that he made mistakes in observing his Contact prayer?That?s why you come up with this kind of interpretation confusing others.
BTW could you please tell me where about in the Quran God says about number 66?
Believe me the damage done by you and those who have claimed other numbers other than 19 in the Quran people like Ayman and Wakas haven?t done it?At least we know what their stand is but with you people you?re the source of confusion by insulting God?s Messenger as his prayer, Zakat and Hajj were wrong plus creating the hadith of other numbers in the Quran.
Rashad knew he was a messenger of God for 8 years and he prayed and led the prayer ?after eight years God asked him to announce his messngership to the world?.would you think God asked a stray man to announce that he was His chosen one? Would you think God didn?t guide Rashad to Contact Him through Salat but guided you? Well to me your claim is sign of arrogance?..The same people who rejected other messengers by making all kind of excuses you are making some plausible excuses as believing in Rashad as messenger but was misguided one.Woooooooow
Asana
-
It is a fact.
"Hardly seeing" part? Definitely. And you completely missed what Wakas was referring to. At any rate, If that's not the definition of irony, I don't know what irony is.
I find it funny that people in this thread use this atrocious logic If you don't prostrate before God, you're arrogant!
No one opposed to physical prostration has any qualms with physically prostrating before the God. The fact is, that action IN ITSELF does not result in obedience! You can prostrate 80,000 times a day, commit sins rest of the time. Does that mean your 'prostration' yielded in submission? The act in itself proves NOTHING. It is useless.
-
Salam Pierre
<<<When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.>>>
I totally agree with you there.
Quote<<<Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations..>>>
I pray 5 times a day and have always done so but sorry there is no mark on my forehead and the other submitters who I know.
If the mark is some thing like what you are trying to tell us then those Idolaters who have it on their foreheads are on the right path!
I?m sorry your interpretation not only doesn?t make sense but also is absurd and opens the gate to hypocrites claiming the mark of obedience on their faces/foreheads by deceiving the people?Surely this is not what God means?.I?ve witnessed the sign of prostration on the faces of true believers when the verses of God recite to them ?Their faces change filling with joy and happiness and show their sincerity standing by command of God ,that?s the mark of prostration to me?...Any time I see these believers I feel happy .Quote<<<it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.>>>God specifically tells us observe Al-Salat and recite the Quran ?.These two are to different actions.
In 1778 one verb is for these two actions?You?re interpreting them as one which is wrong?..First God is asking us to do Salat and then reminding us about observing the Quran at Fajr/dawn??.It?s like someone tell you ?shut the door and the window??Are you going to take them as one action?And same applies for 2945 ?In this verse one verb is for reciting the Quran and the other is for Al-Salat??.It means these two are 2 different actions ?.you interpret the verse as reciting the Quran in our Salat?..God is very precise...If He wanted us to read the Quran back to Him then He would have clearly told us ??God specifically tells us not to teach Him our religion.
Quran is for us not for God to be read back to Him?.When we meditate with it God our Teacher teaches us what we need to know but when we observing the Salat we show our obedience to Him by announcing Who He is to us and Him Alone we chosen to be worshiped.Problem with you and those who think like you is that you verbally claim that Rashad was a messenger but claming that he made mistakes in observing his Contact prayer?That?s why you come up with this kind of interpretation confusing others.
BTW could you please tell me where about in the Quran God says about number 66?
Believe me the damage done by you and those who have claimed other numbers other than 19 in the Quran people like Ayman and Wakas haven?t done it?At least we know what their stand is but with you people you?re the source of confusion by insulting God?s Messenger as his prayer, Zakat and Hajj were wrong plus creating the hadith of other numbers in the Quran.
Rashad knew he was a messenger of God for 8 years and he prayed and led the prayer ?after eight years God asked him to announce his messngership to the world?.would you think God asked a stray man to announce that he was His chosen one? Would you think God didn?t guide Rashad to Contact Him through Salat but guided you? Well to me your claim is sign of arrogance?..The same people who rejected other messengers by making all kind of excuses you are making some plausible excuses as believing in Rashad as messenger but was misguided one.Woooooooow
Asana
Salaam Asana,
In my opinion, Rashad simply opened the way of Islam based on the Quran alone He corrected the Chahadah (but recited a different one in Salaat than the Quranic one in 318, and the one he himself corrected "ash hadu an la elaha el aAllah", he discarded hadiths, he unveiled the miracle of 19 and purifiedQuran form 9128-129. I totally believe in his messengership as the miracle which surrounds his death makes it overwhelmingly clear (http//www.islamrevolution.org/rashadsdeathandsura19.htm).
Beside this, I could cite a number of mistakes he made, and it does not matter at this point. His english translation is very badly written and very imperfect. Yet, some non native English speakers claim it is perfect, as they idolize Rashad. Ask any well educated native English speaker, he will tell you that Rashad's translation is less than average when it comes to the quality of the English language. My point is we need to follow Quran alone, not Rashad's hadiths.Number 66, as you know is the gematrical value of Allah. I wrote a short article about some observations I made about how it connects with number 19 on islamrevolution.org. What's the big deal. The miracle of 19 does not stop with what Rashad witnessed.
The way you see the "mark of prostrations" is very enlightening to me. I personnally condemn the extremists who self inflict a scar on their forehead (to brag about their so called observance of Islam). As we see it so often in the Quran, words have a spiritual and physical meaning, and it is the case for prostration. Prostrating physically is only valid when God knows our hearts and minds also submit to Him; and claiming we prostrate before God only mentally, but refusing to prostrate physically as He commanded us in the Quranic ritual displays profound arrogance, not submission. It is like observing salaat, but refusing to pay the Zakat Salaat is about believing and glorifying God, Zakat is about putting physically our belief in practice by doing do good deeds. Salaat is the same way Both mental and physical, as it augments our reverence to God.
As for Salaat, I totally respect your way. In my opinion, Salaat is a two way communication with God, as I already said, not just a one way glorification. When we recite sura 1, we glorify God and it is for God, when we read the Quran, it is to meditate and be inspired by God's message; Salaat is the way to make the Quran, the whole quran, part of our daily lives five times a day.
In 1778 the general time frame from the Noon until the Dawn Salaat is indicated (which shows the morning time frame is not a Salaat time frame). The verse is about "observing Salaat", still God refers to the Dawn Salaat as the "recitation at Dawn" (The Quran at Dawn)
(177 Observe the ritual prayer ( ة (O Mohammed) when the sun declines (in the sky from its highest point) until the darkness of the night, and the recitation (the Qur?an) at dawn. Verily, witnesses attend the recitation (the Qur?an) at dawn.This is in my view a clear indication that reading the Quran while "observing Salaat" (general context of the verse) is a reality of Islam, as practiced everywhere in the Muslim world.
I recited only sura 1 in my salaat for years, and it is a valid Salaat. My experience as reciting additional suras or verses is incredibly uplifting and makes the whole Quran part of my life every day, especially in the morning, but also at other times. I feel closer than ever to the Quran as I am in constant contact with the whole Quran.This is my understanding and personnal experience, I truly respect yours.
Peace.
Pierre
-
Salaam Ayman,
The scar that extremists inflict upon themselves is not genuine submission to God, and I condemned it in my main article on Salaat by the way.
People who observe Salaat five times day will have a more or less obvious physical mark on their face; As I said, usually it is very slight. How obvious it is is not what matters, as God knows who prostrates mentally and physically, and who does not.As for verse 9615 that you mentioned, it is simply the same pattern of deceit that you repeat over and over.
Let us put the verse in its context, which you are not good at doing because it exposes you regularly961 Read, in the name of your Lord, who created.* 962 He created man from an embryo. 963 Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted. 964 Teaches by means of the pen. 965 He teaches man what he never knew. 966 Indeed, the human transgresses. 967 When he becomes rich. 968 To your Lord is the ultimate destiny. 969 Have you seen the one who enjoins. 9610 Others from praying? 9611 Is it not better for him to follow the guidance? 9612 Or advocate righteousness? 9613 If he disbelieves and turns away. 9614 Does he not realize that GOD sees? 9615 Indeed, unless he refrains, we will take him by the forelock. 9616 A forelock that is disbelieving and sinful. 9617 Let him then call on his helpers. 9618 We will call the guardians of Hell. 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Ayman leads people astray and away from Salaat by corrupting it, and refuses to prostrate physically before God. The answer to people like Ayman who claim we should not prostrate in salaat is provided by 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Don't you see how God designs his verses to expose people like Ayman ?! Glory to God !!! -
Hardly see? ;D
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.29c.gif
Their identification mark are evident/embeded in their bodies from the traces of the prostrations."Traces" means barely detectable amount, i.e. too small to be quantified.
The preposition "fe" does not mean "upon". And "wajuhehim" also refers to whole self, not necessarily face.
Check the traces on the body of any one who prostrates, you will conveniently and invariably see it on ankle and under knee caps, if one could not detect it on forehead.
-
The scar that extremists inflict upon themselves is not genuine submission to God, and I condemned it in my main article on Salaat by the way.
People who observe Salaat five times day will have a more or less obvious physical mark on their face; As I said, usually it is very slight. How obvious it is is not what matters, as God knows who prostrates mentally and physically, and who does not.
So how do you tell the difference between the extremists who are not genuinely submitting and those who are, considering they both will have marks on their forehead according to you. Otherwise those 2 sentenses above contradict each other.
As for verse 9615 that you mentioned, it is simply the same pattern of deceit that you repeat over and over.
Let us put the verse in its context, which you are not good at doing because it exposes you regularly961 Read, in the name of your Lord, who created.* 962 He created man from an embryo. 963 Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted. 964 Teaches by means of the pen. 965 He teaches man what he never knew. 966 Indeed, the human transgresses. 967 When he becomes rich. 968 To your Lord is the ultimate destiny. 969 Have you seen the one who enjoins. 9610 Others from praying? 9611 Is it not better for him to follow the guidance? 9612 Or advocate righteousness? 9613 If he disbelieves and turns away. 9614 Does he not realize that GOD sees? 9615 Indeed, unless he refrains, we will take him by the forelock. 9616 A forelock that is disbelieving and sinful. 9617 Let him then call on his helpers. 9618 We will call the guardians of Hell. 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Ayman leads people astray and away from Salaat by corrupting it, and refuses to prostrate physically before God. The answer to people like Ayman who claim we should not prostrate in salaat is provided by 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Don't you see how God designs his verses to expose people like Ayman ?! Glory to God !!!You are a liar and you are exposed as one. Ayman has nowhere refused to prostrate before God or lead anyone away from salat. The problem is you have not quite grasped what he is saying regarding salat and as such have decided to speak of what you know nothing of and label him, which has exposed you. It would be better for you to try to understand the logic and reasoning behind what is being said before you rush in and label someone in the way you have, to do that though you will have to put your preconceptions aside and step out of the box you are stuck in thinking it's right and there is no other explanation.
Physical prostration is done daily 5 times a day by millions, but how many are doing sujud as per Allah? Think about it, the first part of the quote above may help if you can answer that.
-
Salaam Pierre
It?s interesting that make your own rules for obeying messenger of God!......I?m talking about messenger not him as human being.
You say Rashad corrected the Shahada but then you follow your own findings and advising others to follow/listen you!....Are you a messenger in disguise?!
You say he discarded hadith .Well then you?re up to making up your own hadith about observing the Salat causing confusion the same way that hadith makers and collectors and promoters did.
You say that you believe in his messngership but claiming that you have found the right way of observing Salat which means you?re guided to tell us the correct way of observing the Salat etc but God did NOT guide His own chosen one, the one who should have set a good example by observing them in right way?wow so much for believing in him Pierre.
You criticize his translation by saying that there are grammatically mistakes and is written in poor language?Were you expecting for a perfect English version of Quran that you?re making such a statement?
Is that why you think you?re guided better than him to deliver the right way of Contacting/Salat God etc?You didn?t answer to my question that how come God after 8 years of his messngership asked this man to announce his messngership to the world?.Is it because you know whatever you say is an insult to God?
Well Pierre you can hide your answer from us but God knows your innermost thought... You and those who think like you when it comes to setting a good example should remember that God says messenger set a good example not you or anybody else beside you.God says that He and His messenger are the winners?.Therefore take this as backfire on you and please stop causing more confusion among those who want to stay on Straight path of God without any doubt?.If God didn?t guide His own messenger then we should forget about it that there is any hope for you and me to be guided too!...This is what I call it a Satanic concept and a message that you and those who claiming about Rashad making mistakes about observing Salat are promoting in order to take away trust in God and His messenger causing confusion ,corruption and division?.All these are coming from your ego.
People are interested to know how God?s messenger observed his prayer, this essential act of worshiping God not you and others?.If he made mistakes about it according to you which mean he lost it according to your claim then you have to choose one between two, either he was a messenger of God on the right Path regarding Contacting God and paying Zakt, Hajj and fasting or he wasn?t a messenger of God because God says that He and His messengers are the winners??You can?t have both way.
Asana
-
Their identification mark are evident/embeded in their bodies from the traces of the prostrations.
"Traces" means barely detectable amount, i.e. too small to be quantified.
The preposition "fe" does not mean "upon". And "wajuhehim" also refers to whole self, not necessarily face.
Check the traces on the body of any one who prostrates, you will conveniently and invariably see it on ankle and under knee caps, if one could not detect it on forehead.
I disagree with your last statement.
I analyse this specific verse here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html -
Quote from Mazhar on November 28, 2010, 024005 AM
Their identification mark are evident/embeded in their bodies from the traces of the prostrations."Traces" means barely detectable amount, i.e. too small to be quantified.
The preposition "fe" does not mean "upon". And "wajuhehim" also refers to whole self, not necessarily face.
Check the traces on the body of any one who prostrates, you will conveniently and invariably see it on ankle and under knee caps, if one could not detect it on forehead.
I disagree with your last statement.
I analyse this specific verse here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.htmlThis reference was under discussion on some other threads also.
The perception seems to have been arrived at even without determining the nature of relevant words. - is a verb and I need not say that a verb either signifies a physical act or describes a state.
-
Salaam Pierre
It?s interesting that make your own rules for obeying messenger of God!......I?m talking about messenger not him as human being.
You say Rashad corrected the Shahada but then you follow your own findings and advising others to follow/listen you!....Are you a messenger in disguise?!
You say he discarded hadith .Well then you?re up to making up your own hadith about observing the Salat causing confusion the same way that hadith makers and collectors and promoters did.
You say that you believe in his messngership but claiming that you have found the right way of observing Salat which means you?re guided to tell us the correct way of observing the Salat etc but God did NOT guide His own chosen one, the one who should have set a good example by observing them in right way?wow so much for believing in him Pierre.
You criticize his translation by saying that there are grammatically mistakes and is written in poor language?Were you expecting for a perfect English version of Quran that you?re making such a statement?
Is that why you think you?re guided better than him to deliver the right way of Contacting/Salat God etc?You didn?t answer to my question that how come God after 8 years of his messngership asked this man to announce his messngership to the world?.Is it because you know whatever you say is an insult to God?
Well Pierre you can hide your answer from us but God knows your innermost thought... You and those who think like you when it comes to setting a good example should remember that God says messenger set a good example not you or anybody else beside you.God says that He and His messenger are the winners?.Therefore take this as backfire on you and please stop causing more confusion among those who want to stay on Straight path of God without any doubt?.If God didn?t guide His own messenger then we should forget about it that there is any hope for you and me to be guided too!...This is what I call it a Satanic concept and a message that you and those who claiming about Rashad making mistakes about observing Salat are promoting in order to take away trust in God and His messenger causing confusion ,corruption and division?.All these are coming from your ego.
People are interested to know how God?s messenger observed his prayer, this essential act of worshiping God not you and others?.If he made mistakes about it according to you which mean he lost it according to your claim then you have to choose one between two, either he was a messenger of God on the right Path regarding Contacting God and paying Zakt, Hajj and fasting or he wasn?t a messenger of God because God says that He and His messengers are the winners??You can?t have both way.
Asana
Salaam Asana,
I presented a study on Salaat based on the Quran, not Rashad. Am I perfect ? No.
I said the Quran is the perfect messenger, not Rashad.
Why was Rashad's Chahadah, the one he purified in the Quran (318, 3735, 4719, appendix 13) different in his Salaat ?
Can you show me one verse in the Quran which confirms the Chahadah he recited in his Salaat ?
You perfectly know which verse perfectly confirms the one he purified in appendix 13.
Over 20 years after Rashad's departure, we still have the right to study the Quran. The study I presented provides in my opinion a number of valuable remarks, and a sum of details I have not found elsewhere so far. The most valuable aspect is the explanation of the Salaat time frames. We need to understand that in depth, to help people not be fooled by people who lost the 5 Salawat.For Rashad's translation, look how many Submitters believe his translation is perfect. What happened with Rashad is the same as other messengers in the past some people started idolizing him. There are so many things you simply cannot understand from his translation if it is the only thing you read, because sometimes it is badly translated.
Example(2226) We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it (?!), those who live near it (?), and those who bow and prostrate. (Rashad' translation)
(2226) And we revealed to Abraham the location of the temple ?Do not associate anything beside Me, and purify My temple for those who do the Tawaf (ritual of circling the Kaaba), and those who stand, bow and prostrate (during Salaat). (a personal translation).Why did Rashad not preserve the meaning of the ritual of circling the Kaaba ("for those who who do the tawaf" = ) and "standing" ( = "those who stand" before you bow and prostrate ? (for instance, compare his translation of 2226 with 25 other translations at http//www.openburhan.net/) This is just one exemple, and there are many. Lots of Submitters read exclusively Rashad's translation, think it is perfect, and lose lots of the actual meaning of the Arabic Quran. If we listened to them, they would establish Rashad's translation as a standard on earth, and believe me, the quality of the English is very poor, it would not help people speak a better English, and it would spread lots of mistakes he made in his translation.
In addition he sometimes misinterpreted the Quran, for instance he believed that satan is the Khalifa on earth, when it is Adam whom God appointed as a Khalifa on earth (satan is horribly jealous of that)
(230) When your Lord said to the angels I am going to place a vicegerent (Khalifah) on earth. They said "Will You place there one who will make mischief and shed blood while we sing Your praises and glorify Your name?" Allah said "I know what you know not." (231) He taught Adam the names of all things; then He presented the things to the angels and said "Tell Me the names of these if what you say is true?" (232) Glory to You, they replied, "we have no knowledge except what You have taught us in fact You are the One who is perfect in knowledge and wisdom." (233) Allah said "O Adam! Tell them the names." When Adam told them the names, Allah said "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the heavens and the earth and I know what you reveal and what you conceal?" (234) When We ordered the angels (including satan) "Prostrate before Adam" they all prostrated except Iblees (Satan) who refused in his arrogance and became a disbeliever.
(1850) When We said to the angels "Prostrate yourself before Adam," all prostrated themselves except Iblees (Satan), who was one of the Jinns and chose to disobey the command of his Lord. Would you then take him and his children as your protectors rather than Me, even though they are your enemies? What a bad substitute the wrongdoers have chosen!The above verses show that Adam is the khalifah appointed by God on earth, not satan. satan is a fallen angel, and as an angel, he was asked like all other angels to prostrate before Adam (therefore he cannot be the khalifah), which he refused out of arrogance. This also shows, in my opinion, that jinns are fallen angels, who rebelled against God. This is why we see in the Quran that they still have angel like powers (for instance 2740).
Also check in 1850 how Rashad mistranslated "he became a jinn" instead of "he was one of the jinns" (kaana minal jinni, ).
The "Khalifah" issue (Adam or satan) was a huge miss from Rashad, and there are others. Rashad simply reopened and prepared the way (Malichi 3) to restore Islam based exclusively on the Quran. He was far from perfect. I have personnally no doubt that Rashad was a messenger and a purifier, and we cannot be blind regarding his mistakes. One more time The Quran is the perfect messenger.Peace.
Pierre
-
Then what is the base of your belief?
Salaam Mazhar,
He is the first one who really condemned hadiths. He purified the Chahadah. He unveiled the miracle of 19, which led to identify the two false verses 9128-129. He pointed out that Islam relies exclusively on the Quran.
These are the greatest accomplishments of his life, which truly opened a new era in Islam.
Pierre
-
Salaam Mazhar,
He is the first one who really condemned hadiths. He purified the Chahadah. He unveiled the miracle of 19, which led to identify the two false verses 9128-129. He pointed out that Islam relies exclusively on the Quran.
These are the greatest accomplishments of his life, which truly opened a new era in Islam.
Pierre
He was never first to reject hadiths, the only reason u think that because u don't know of the millions of people in India and pakistan who rejected hadith since the 17 th century, and u didn't hear about Maurice bucaille who rejected hadith in the 70s and the imam ghazali who rejected hadiths late 70s and and... the reason u say he's the first is because u didn't read the hustory of Islam, since the companions to mussatazilah ti ibn khaldoun etc...
Rashad had a chance he used the computer when it costed hundreds of thousands of dolars, you're talking 1974 here, and he made noise, because he used Deedat acting like a pious person until he became known he proclaimed himself a messenger
All messengers that we know, are proclaimed messengers in the quran and by name, he introduced his name in translations, so , if he was like abraham or mohamed as he said, the quran would have been clear that there will be a messenger after mohamed
Jesus said a messenger will come after me called ahmed
why not Mohamed say a messenger come after me , and give his name or a similar name, or at least he would have said in the quran a messenger will come after me , he didn't
i see many verses start with Say..... for everything and never Say a messenger come after me or something like that
I don't prau 5 times a day because the sounni and shii and sublmitters do, i pray 2 times a day becaus the quran say so, periodAll verses talks about two prayers, the ones who want to prouve 5 salat go always to interpret verses thaat has nothing to do with salat
Remember, when allah give a command, it's always clear and strightforward, and about two salat also was clear and straightforward , isn't the quran sufficient ? why didn't allah say pray fajr and than noon and than afternoon and than sunset and isha , a small verse like this, we don't find it because there is no 5 stars prayer
peace -
Salaam Mazhar,
He is the first one who really condemned hadiths. He purified the Chahadah. He unveiled the miracle of 19, which led to identify the two false verses 9128-129. He pointed out that Islam relies exclusively on the Quran.
These are the greatest accomplishments of his life, which truly opened a new era in Islam.
Pierre
Salaam brother Pierre,
True, those are really greatest accomplishments, but Allah said
177
177 If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the Temple as they did the first time, and they will strike down all that was raised up.That means, who ever do good will be for his own-self not for us. And also it don't give him a way to Messengership.
Please note that there is a difference between 'Rasool ' and 'AlRasool '.
To understand it more clearly, please look at the aayat below
4165
4165 Messengers who were bearers of good news and warners, so that there will be no excuse for the people with Allah after the messengers. Allah is Noble, Wise.I hope you understand the difference, inshaAllah. Now...
4164
4164 And messengers of whom We have told to you from before, and messengers We have not told to you; and God spoke to Moses directly.About Rasool , about some Allah told us, not about all.
11120
11119 And We tell to you of all from the news of the messengers with which We strengthen your heart. In this has come to you the truth and a lesson and a reminder for the believers.About AlRasool every thing has been said.
So, which Rasool do you think Rashad Khalifa is brother? Rasool or AlRasool?
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother LoxBox13,
He was never first to reject hadiths, the only reason u think that because u don't know of the millions of people in India and pakistan who rejected hadith since the 17 th century
I agree with you 100% peace
May Allah guide us all towards the truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
He was never first to reject hadiths, the only reason u think that because u don't know of the millions of people in India and pakistan who rejected hadith since the 17 th century, and u didn't hear about Maurice bucaille who rejected hadith in the 70s and the imam ghazali who rejected hadiths late 70s and and... the reason u say he's the first is because u didn't read the hustory of Islam, since the companions to mussatazilah ti ibn khaldoun etc...
Rashad had a chance he used the computer when it costed hundreds of thousands of dolars, you're talking 1974 here, and he made noise, because he used Deedat acting like a pious person until he became known he proclaimed himself a messenger
All messengers that we know, are proclaimed messengers in the quran and by name, he introduced his name in translations, so , if he was like abraham or mohamed as he said, the quran would have been clear that there will be a messenger after mohamed
Jesus said a messenger will come after me called ahmed
why not Mohamed say a messenger come after me , and give his name or a similar name, or at least he would have said in the quran a messenger will come after me , he didn't
i see many verses start with Say..... for everything and never Say a messenger come after me or something like that
I don't prau 5 times a day because the sounni and shii and sublmitters do, i pray 2 times a day becaus the quran say so, periodAll verses talks about two prayers, the ones who want to prouve 5 salat go always to interpret verses thaat has nothing to do with salat
Remember, when allah give a command, it's always clear and strightforward, and about two salat also was clear and straightforward , isn't the quran sufficient ? why didn't allah say pray fajr and than noon and than afternoon and than sunset and isha , a small verse like this, we don't find it because there is no 5 stars prayer
peaceSalaam,
You claim Imam al Ghazali, Maurice Bucaille, and millions of people since the 17th century rejected hadiths. This may be partially true. For Ghazali, if it were the case he would have been killed and rejected. He was simply a basic sunni who mentioned Muhammad in his Chahadah like all sunnis, and was not even able to do the ritual of ablutions as described in the Quran, and followed the sunni ritual instead. So regarding your assertions, sorry, but it does not fly, and it is a lie.
There is not one of all those alleged millions of people who defined themselves as Muslims and were able to recite a pure Chahadah, that is to say not mentioning the name of Muhammad or else beside God. It is Rashad Khalifa and no one else who understood the meaning of 3945 and 4012 as the crucial test of faith of the Quran.This is Rashad's greatest accomplishment, and no one can deny he is not the first to have purified the Chahadah.
This alone is a proof of messengership.As for the alleged two prayers per day, you are lying to yourself, and like Ayman one single verse suffice to expose your claims
(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers (salawat), as well as the middle prayer (Salaat al wusta), and stand up before God with humility.Salawat is by definition three of more prayers, and you will never be able to find a middle prayer with two, even if you claim it is several days, 2+2+2+2+2+2+... will always equal an even number and there will never be a middle prayer with an even number.
It is your ego that prevents you from seeing the truth. People on this website have been enticed by Ayman and his revisionism, and are totally disconnected from the Quran and its very precise meanings.
Peace.
Pierre
-
Salaam,
You claim Imam al Ghazali, Maurice Bucaille, and millions of people since the 17th century rejected hadiths. This may be partially true. For Ghazali, if it were the case he would have been killed and rejected. He was simply a basic sunni who mentioned Muhammad in his Chahadah like all sunnis, and was not even able to do the ritual of ablutions as described in the Quran, and followed the sunni ritual instead. So regarding your assertions, sorry, but it does not fly, and it is a lie.
There is not one of all those alleged millions of people who defined themselves as Muslims and were able to recite a pure Chahadah, that is to say not mentioning the name of Muhammad or else beside God. It is Rashad Khalifa and no one else who understood the meaning of 3945 and 4012 as the crucial test of faith of the Quran.This is Rashad's greatest accomplishment, and no one can deny he is not the first to have purified the Chahadah.
This alone is a proof of messengership.As for the alleged two prayers per day, you are lying to yourself, and like Ayman one single verse suffice to expose your claims
(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers (salawat), as well as the middle prayer (Salaat al wusta), and stand up before God with humility.Salawat is by definition three of more prayers, and you will never be able to find a middle prayer with two, even if you claim it is several days, 2+2+2+2+2+2+... will always equal an even number and there will never be a middle prayer with an even number.
It is your ego that prevents you from seeing the truth. People on this website have been enticed by Ayman and his revisionism, and are totally disconnected from the Quran and its very precise meanings.
Peace.
Pierre
U wrong to say only khalfa who said la ilahai ila llah , i don't have to testify my testimony to anyone, it's in the heart , not words to say like rashad khalfa claim
if understanding the meaning f one verse is a proof of messengership !!!, than all companions are messengers of god, as well as ahl alquran from egypt and the pakistanis of the 17th centery are as well all messengers , come on, understanding a verse makes a person messenger of god ? i think its too much , at least say maybe he was wise even though i know he inerted his nams inside parentheses translation just like sunnis do, he missstranslated oukht harooun for example to descendant of haroun, a messenger of god is one who understands the scripture and been taught by allah himself, not learning from souffis and spending time looking for his name is the qiuran, only the angel gabriel would have told him in a simple words, remember, messengers do make mistakes as all humans do, but, when it comes to the scripture, allah sends the one who is taght by himself through Gabriel, like prophete mohamed, or yahya or isa or moses , so prophet Mohamed delivered the whole quran without a single mistake and without adding his names in parentheses , remember, khalfa enjoy saying the verse about the prophet mohamed, if he added something we will take him from his heart and.....
u know the verse that khalfa use and enjoying the most about prophete mohamed , if a messenger lied or added, he will getted in the heart from allahSura 6944-48 ?And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath). But verily this is a Message for the God-fearing.?
Because prophete mohamed didn't add anything in the quran or anywhere else , so he accomplesehd his mission and allah testified about him in the quran
what if we apply this verse on khalfa and the way he died ? did allah seieze him by his right hand and cutt of his artery ? -
Salaam,
You claim Imam al Ghazali, Maurice Bucaille, and millions of people since the 17th century rejected hadiths. This may be partially true. For Ghazali, if it were the case he would have been killed and rejected. He was simply a basic sunni who mentioned Muhammad in his Chahadah like all sunnis, and was not even able to do the ritual of ablutions as described in the Quran, and followed the sunni ritual instead. So regarding your assertions, sorry, but it does not fly, and it is a lie.
There is not one of all those alleged millions of people who defined themselves as Muslims and were able to recite a pure Chahadah, that is to say not mentioning the name of Muhammad or else beside God. It is Rashad Khalifa and no one else who understood the meaning of 3945 and 4012 as the crucial test of faith of the Quran.This is Rashad's greatest accomplishment, and no one can deny he is not the first to have purified the Chahadah.
This alone is a proof of messengership.As for the alleged two prayers per day, you are lying to yourself, and like Ayman one single verse suffice to expose your claims
(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers (salawat), as well as the middle prayer (Salaat al wusta), and stand up before God with humility.Salawat is by definition three of more prayers, and you will never be able to find a middle prayer with two, even if you claim it is several days, 2+2+2+2+2+2+... will always equal an even number and there will never be a middle prayer with an even number.
It is your ego that prevents you from seeing the truth. People on this website have been enticed by Ayman and his revisionism, and are totally disconnected from the Quran and its very precise meanings.
Peace.
Pierre
Just like Rashad khalfa taught u , u think all salat is a rituel of nimaz ! i use to think that too actually
But , u really think that allah gave the Quran to people , in it are a set of rituels and told them give this quran to humanity ?
If someone say salat is a rituel, than it is a satanic translation, because Satan Loves rituals, and for u the quran is a set of rituals, cas you explain what wousta mean in arabic ? if you want to put a point in between ywo points in arabic with the ewact dimensions between the two sides of this middepoint, it is called markaz, than it sould salat markaziya , and not wista
-
Salaam Mazhar,
He is the first one who really condemned hadiths. He purified the Chahadah. He unveiled the miracle of 19, which led to identify the two false verses 9128-129. He pointed out that Islam relies exclusively on the Quran.
These are the greatest accomplishments of his life, which truly opened a new era in Islam.
Pierre
He in fact exposed himself to be a cheat and imposter. Pl find time to read few threads on 19 section of the Forum.
Rashad Khalifa's Intellectual deceit exposed-
