Question for the people with knowledge
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8 1649 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, from the creatures and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.234 And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
Note if you say iblis is a jinn not an angel, learn grammar. Allah gives an orders to angels and all obey save Iblis. Nothing more, nothing less.I understand this perfectly. Allah asked something to angels. One of them disobeys.
No misunderstanding, no mistranslation, no agenda, no bias. I am just looking at these verses. Except if you want to remake the whole arabic language. Guys who wrote the qur'an did a good job but they couldn't be perfect from A to Z.
Because you believe in it so much, i am pretty sure that you wont accept this reality i showed you. It is always the same you will start doing pirouettes everywhere, saying it's translation is wrong, then it will be symbolic, then you will quote another verse, you will start to interpret all kinds of things. As long as you don't get logical in your reasoning you won't be honest, therefore you won't realize reality.I just looked at other posts on the topic about iblis being an angel or not. It is astonishing. I think, although i am not sure of course, Wakas, among others is really a manipulator and a liar. He is too imaginative to be honest, and he is the guy, among others, that could have an agenda. If he is being sincere, he has been deluded to a very high level. He speaks about angels meaning "controllers", and changes the meaning of almost every single words in sentence, and adds interpretations on top of this already mountain sized load of lie/speculation. The thing is, the words angels in 234 and 1646, they are the same words. It could mean anything, the contradiction would still be there. But these guys never stops. He will find a way to manipulate things and use perversion to remove the meaning of things.
Actually i m starting to think that not a lot of people believe this, and only very naive people like me ever believed in this. In fact weak people with intellectual potential are easier to manipulate because they are so arrogant. They think they know it all because they have a good brain and logic, they just refuse to turn it on because of arrogance. After all, they couldn't be wrong about this religion, they believed in it for so much time and read so much articles. Truth is people get better with time, and can believe things for years that are wrongs because a few years ago they were a lot less experienced intellectually. When arrogant, the more you are involved, the harder it is to challenge your opinion. It would need humility. Get rid of the arrogance and challenge your view like if you were not a believer to become objective.
I understand that sometimes you heard attacks on the qur'an, you fought belief was wrong and then you found explanations which could have made sense, as there is a lot of unfounded attacks on the qur'an. So you remember this as a trauma, as you could have gone to hell because you drew a conclusion too fast. But there's a moment when you have to open your eyes and accept things as they are. Refusing to see all the time is excessive. Some have gone too far on this forum. At this point if you did show them a verse about child rape during war or infidel babies burning they would try like they always do to change all the meanings interpretations and translations up to the point that, if cornered, they would justify it. Just like the prophets wives. Ive actually seen on the forum that it was a good thing and that he took care of them. Surely he did happily take care of them, but probably more so in the physical way that ends in a bath of fluids.
If i show you a religious book that you not know, or if i come to you as a prophet, you will challenge me before believing me. Challenge, THEN belief. Do the same with the qur'an. But this time for real. No half assed explanations, search for yourself. See different sources and not only freeminds articles. Weight your explanations. Challenge it as hard as you can as if you were a disbeliever, but don't draw conclusions fast in any side. not in the side that you like (which you do too much for the moment), nor to the side that you don't like(disbelief). Just be objective, because this forum is FILLED with bias, speculation, andbelieving too fast without checking things that comfort you in belief. Thats a nice wall of text, i don't know if i will answer again as im losing too much time on this.
If the qur'an is for the ones who think and are truthful, then start getting truthful. Thinking is one thing, thinking truthfully is another. -
this thread is all over the place.
equality of treatment between sexes...which does not happen all the time in the qur'an ...
like daughter inherits twice as much as her two brothers
three more more hands from two people.
each person's hands (figuratively)!
2424 day it witness upon them alsinatuhum/the tongues (sayings) theirs wa-aydhim/and hands (actions) theirs wa-arjuluhum/and feet (deeds) theirs in what be they of working
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the jizyah comment i made was a free attack with nothing to do with the verse, just a reference to muslims fighting others until they pay jyziah
the conditions are spreading corruption and waging war against allah, which in themsevles are very vague terms
basically if you refuse these divine laws because you don't want your children to get their hands cut because they stole candies the muslim will crucify you unless you repent before they overpower you hail in this verse, to repent meaning to surrender in real life language
its too bad because most of the positive laws are good, but at which price do they come.. and on top of a terrible lie
as for your theory about jyziah, i have more than enough of reading baseless half assed theories from nowhere from quranists who dont know classical arabic yet pretend to reinvent the wheel, you read articles on the internet=very nice, i dont care as the qur'an is contradictory.
so heres an half assed answer probably more sound than all your crap articles united
call it tax, tribute or compensation if you want it is a payment for their protection like the mafiosos in the movies, if you dont pay they break your face, if you pay, they protect you from themselves, and maybe others, see the verse for yourself it just says fight those who not believe until they pay and subdue. overone could think islam saved the arab world from depravation..; but when you think of the christians who got slaugthered near them.. they had very similar morals and died for a freaking son/not son of god story... how sad and they still get slaughtered today as well as everyone who is not muslim; maybe instead of speculating about the fasting month of a contradictory book which does not even indicate when is this fasting month, you should try to heal the world and prevent all the suffering caused by the people who do no twist the words as much as you do...
So i have not read my post then? That would mean that you have a bias. Red I have shown you the root word of Jizyah but you seem to not listen. This linguistic fact that Jizyah is not Tax. I will show the root word once more.
Jiim-Zay-Ya = Pay/give/render a satisfaction, make sufficient, pay a debt, to contend, repay/requit/compensate, to recompense.
jaza vb. (1)
perf. act. 6146, 23111, 3417, 7612
impf. act. 248, 2123, 3144, 3145, 684, 6138, 6139, 6157, 740, 741, 7152, 9121, 104, 1013, 1222, 1275, 1288, 1451, 1631, 1696, 1697, 20127, 2129, 2129, 2438, 2814, 2825, 297, 3045, 3133, 3324, 344, 3536, 3780, 37105, 37110, 37121, 37131, 3935, 4127, 4514, 4625, 5331, 5331, 5435, 7744
impf. pass. 4123, 693, 6120, 6160, 7147, 7180, 1052, 2015, 2575, 2790, 2884, 3433, 3654, 3739, 4017, 4040, 4522, 4528, 4620, 5216, 5341, 667, 9219
n.vb. 285, 2191, 387, 3136, 493, 529, 533, 538, 585, 595, 926, 982, 995, 1027, 1225, 1274, 1275, 1275, 1763, 1763, 1798, 1888, 18106, 2076, 2515, 3217, 3437, 3934, 4128, 4128, 4240, 4614, 5341, 5414, 5560, 5624, 5917, 769, 7622, 7826, 7836, 988
pcple. act. 3133jizyah n.f. 929
jaza vb. (3) impf. act. 3417
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 58 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=jzy
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this thread is all over the place.
like daughter inherits twice as much as her two brothers
Bold https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.0
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the jizyah comment i made was a free attack with nothing to do with the verse, just a reference to muslims fighting others until they pay jyziah
the conditions are spreading corruption and waging war against allah, which in themsevles are very vague terms
basically if you refuse these divine laws because you don't want your children to get their hands cut because they stole candies the muslim will crucify you unless you repent before they overpower you hail in this verse, to repent meaning to surrender in real life language
its too bad because most of the positive laws are good, but at which price do they come.. and on top of a terrible lie
as for your theory about jyziah, i have more than enough of reading baseless half assed theories from nowhere from quranists who dont know classical arabic yet pretend to reinvent the wheel, you read articles on the internet=very nice, i dont care as the qur'an is contradictory.
so heres an half assed answer probably more sound than all your crap articles united
call it tax, tribute or compensation if you want it is a payment for their protection like the mafiosos in the movies, if you dont pay they break your face, if you pay, they protect you from themselves, and maybe others, see the verse for yourself it just says fight those who not believe until they pay and subdue. overone could think islam saved the arab world from depravation..; but when you think of the christians who got slaugthered near them.. they had very similar morals and died for a freaking son/not son of god story... how sad and they still get slaughtered today as well as everyone who is not muslim; maybe instead of speculating about the fasting month of a contradictory book which does not even indicate when is this fasting month, you should try to heal the world and prevent all the suffering caused by the people who do no twist the words as much as you do...
What? No it does not look here
Repent
verb
feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.
"the Padre urged his listeners to repent"
synonyms feel remorse for, regret, be sorry for, rue, reproach oneself for, be ashamed of, feel contrite about, wish that one had not done something; be penitent, see the error of one's ways, be regretful, be remorseful, be repentant, be conscience-stricken, be guilt-ridden, wear sackcloth and ashes
"he later repented of what he had done"
view or think of (an action or omission) with deep regret or remorse.
"Marian came to repent her hasty judgement"
archaic
feel regret or penitence about.
"I repent me of all I did"So basically it means regret something that he/she did something wrong.
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I do not know where "Pay Jizya" comes from? Does "yuhtu " mean pay?
I do not see any pay/payment in that verse.
"Yuhtu Jizyah" means give themselves up,. The verse is talking about "Fasad" /crime . Those who do "Fasad Fi Al Ard" must be pursued until they give themselves up/ arrested/handcuffed/... to stop them doing more crime.
The verse is addressed to the community to pursue justice. .
GOD bless.
Peace. -
I do not know where "Pay Jizya" comes from? Does "yuhtu " mean pay?
I do not see any pay/payment in that verse.
"Yuhtu Jizyah" means give themselves up,. The verse is talking about "Fasad" /crime . Those who do "Fasad Fi Al Ard" must be pursued until they give themselves up/ arrested/handcuffed/... to stop them doing more crime.
The verse is addressed to the community to pursue justice. .
GOD bless.
Peace.Here is the root word of yuthu
Ayn-Tay-Waw/Ya ( /ي = to take, receive. ataun - gift bestowment, present. a'ta - to give a present, offer. ta'ata (vb. 6) - took.
ata n.m. 11108, 1720, 1720, 3839, 7836
a'ta vb. (4)
perf. act. 2050, 5334, 925, 1081
impf. act. 929, 935
perf. pass. 958
impf. pass. 958ta'ata vb. (6) 5429
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 369, 370, 371 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=eTw
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8 1649 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, from the creatures and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.234 And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
Here is verses before & after 1649-50
1640
Innama qawluna lishay-in ithaaradnahu an naqoola lahu kun fayakoonu
Indeed, Our saying to a thing, if We wanted it, is that We say to it 'Be,' and it is.1641
Waallatheena hajaroofee Allahi min baAAdi ma thulimoolanubawwi-annahum fee alddunya hasanatanwalaajru al-akhirati akbaru law kanoo yaAAlamoona
And those who have emigrated for God, after they were oppressed, We will grant them good in the world, and the reward of the Hereafter will be greater, if only they knew.1642
Allatheena sabaroo waAAalarabbihim yatawakkaloona
Those who are patient, and put their trust in their Lord.1643
Wama arsalna min qablika illarijalan noohee ilayhim fais-aloo ahla alththikriin kuntum la taAAlamoona
And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.1644
Bialbayyinati waalzzuburiwaanzalna ilayka alththikra litubayyina lilnnasima nuzzila ilayhim walaAAallahum yatafakkaroona
With proofs and the scriptures. And We sent down to you the Reminder to reveal to the people what was sent to them, and perhaps they will think.1645
Afaamina allatheena makaroo alssayyi-atian yakhsifa Allahu bihimu al-arda aw ya/tiyahumualAAathabu min haythu la yashAAuroona
Have those who schemed evil guaranteed that God will not make the earth swallow them, or the retribution come to them from where they do not expect?1646
Aw ya/khuthahum fee taqallubihim famahum bimuAAjizeena
Or that He will take them in their sleep? For they cannot stop it.1647
Aw ya/khuthahum AAalatakhawwufin fa-inna rabbakum laraoofun raheemun
Or that He will take them while they are in a state of fear? Your Lord is Compassionate, Merciful.1648
Awa lam yaraw ila ma khalaqaAllahu min shay-in yatafayyao thilaluhuAAani alyameeni waalshshama-ili sujjadan lillahiwahum dakhiroona
Have they not seen that what God has created of a thing, its shadow inclines to the right and the left in prostration to God; and they are humbled!1649
Walillahi yasjudu ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi min dabbatin waalmala-ikatuwahum la yastakbiroona
And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, from the creatures and the angels, and they are not arrogant.1650
Yakhafoona rabbahum min fawqihimwayafAAaloona ma yu/maroona
They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.1651
Waqala Allahu latattakhithoo ilahayni ithnayni innama huwailahun wahidun fa-iyyaya fairhabooni
And God said "Do not take two gods, there is only One god, so it is Me that you shall reverence."1652
Walahu ma fee alssamawatiwaal-ardi walahu alddeenu wasibanafaghayra Allahi tattaqoona
And to Him is what is in the heavens and the earth, and the system shall be to Him. Is it other than God that you shall be aware of?1653
Wama bikum min niAAmatin famina Allahithumma itha massakumu alddurru fa-ilayhitaj-aroona
And any blessing that is with you is from God. Then, when harm afflicts you, to Him you cry out.1654
Thumma itha kashafa alddurraAAankum itha fareequn minkum birabbihim yushrikoona
Then, when He removes the harm from you, a group of you set up partners with their Lord!1655
Liyakfuroo bima ataynahumfatamattaAAoo fasawfa taAAlamoona
So they reject what We have given them. Enjoy, for you will come to know.1656
WayajAAaloona lima layaAAlamoona naseeban mimma razaqnahum taAllahilatus-alunna AAamma kuntum taftaroona
And they allocate a portion from what We provide for them to that which they have no knowledge of. By God, you will be asked about the lies you have invented!1657
WayajAAaloona lillahi albanatisubhanahu walahum ma yashtahoona
And they assign daughters to God; be He glorified; and to them is what they desire.1658
Wa-itha bushshira ahaduhum bialonthathalla wajhuhu muswaddan wahuwa katheemun
And when one of them is given news of a female, his face becomes darkened and he is in grief!1659
Yatawara mina alqawmi minsoo-i ma bushshira bihi ayumsikuhu AAala hoonin amyadussuhu fee altturabi ala saa mayahkumoona
He hides from his people because of the bad news he has received. Shall he keep her with dishonor, or bury her in the sand? Miserable indeed is how they judge!And the verses before & after 234
227
Allatheena yanqudoona AAahdaAllahi min baAAdi meethaqihi wayaqtaAAoona maamara Allahu bihi an yoosala wayufsidoona fee al-ardiola-ika humu alkhasiroona
The ones who break the pledge to God after making its covenant, and they sever what God had ordered to be delivered, and they make corruption on the earth; these are the losers.228
Kayfa takfuroona biAllahiwakuntum amwatan faahyakum thumma yumeetukumthumma yuhyeekum thumma ilayhi turjaAAoona
How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.229
Huwa allathee khalaqa lakum mafee al-ardi jameeAAan thumma istawa ila alssama-ifasawwahunna sabAAa samawatin wahuwa bikullishay-in AAaleemun
He is the One who has created for you all that is on the earth, then He attended to the heaven and has made it seven heavens, and He is aware of all things.230
Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee jaAAilun fee al-ardi khaleefatan qalooatajAAalu feeha man yufsidu feeha wayasfiku alddimaawanahnu nusabbihu bihamdika wanuqaddisu lakaqala innee aAAlamu ma la taAAlamoona
And your Lord said to the angels "I am placing a successor on the earth." They said "Will You place in it he who would make corruption in it, and spill blood; while we praise by Your glory, and exalt to You?" He said "I know what you do not know."231
WaAAallama adama al-asmaakullaha thumma AAaradahum AAala almala-ikatifaqala anbi-oonee bi-asma-i haola-iin kuntum sadiqeena
And He taught Adam the names of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said "Inform Me of the names of these if you are truthful."232
Qaloo subhanaka laAAilma lana illa ma AAallamtanainnaka anta alAAaleemu alhakeemu
They said "Glory to You, we have no knowledge except that which You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise."233
Qala ya adamu anbi/humbi-asma-ihim falamma anbaahum bi-asma-ihim qalaalam aqul lakum innee aAAlamu ghayba alssamawatiwaal-ardi waaAAlamu ma tubdoona wamakuntum taktumoona
He said "O Adam, inform them of their names," so when he informed them of their names, He said "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen of the heavens and the earth, and that I know what you reveal and what you are hiding?"234
Wa-ith qulna lilmala-ikatiosjudoo li-adama fasajadoo illa ibleesa abawaistakbara wakana mina alkafireena
And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.235
Waqulna ya adamu oskunanta wazawjuka aljannata wakula minha raghadan haythushi/tuma wala taqraba hathihi alshshajaratafatakoona mina alththalimeena
And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not come near this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."236
Faazallahuma alshshaytanuAAanha faakhrajahuma mimma kanafeehi waqulna ihbitoo baAAdukum libaAAdinAAaduwwun walakum fee al-ardi mustaqarrun wamataAAunila heenin
So, the devil caused them to slip from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend; for you are enemies to one another; and on the earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."237
Fatalaqqa adamu min rabbihikalimatin fataba AAalayhi innahu huwa alttawwabualrraheemu
Adam then received words from His Lord, so He forgave him; He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.238
Qulna ihbitoo minhajameeAAan fa-imma ya/tiyannakum minnee hudan faman tabiAAahudaya fala khawfun AAalayhim wala hum yahzanoona
We said "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."239
Waallatheena kafaroo wakaththaboobi-ayatina ola-ika as-habualnnari hum feeha khalidoona
Those who do not appreciate and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of the fire, in it they will abide.It's important to have context dear brother. Salam/Peace.
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Peace Ju5 or is it jew5?
The Quran or the word of Allah is not contradictory, only humans misunderstand,
mistranslate, have a bias, or have an agenda. I believe it is true what you say that
there is a righteous fair middle.peace
Now now dear brother Hawk99 let's not get too drastic. And no i don't think Ju5 is jewish or does have a hidden agenda. At least i hope not.
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Peace All.
Ju5 is right. He understands Qoran his way. After all as far as he is concerned, no one here has answered with satisfaction his queries about the contradictory Qoran.
Remember sex with slaves ?
As far as Qoran is concerned this is allowed , Killing innocent kafirs is allowed and so forth...
Muslims make the kafirs pay Jizyah, Muslims are ... according to Qoran.
What is it with you lot insisting on your ways ?
To me the brother seems intelligent enough to find out for himself. If he is sincere enough, then give him time to analyse and study or leave Qoran.
After all this time, since last June to be precise, we are trying but failed .
Brother Ju5, personally I think you need to do more study and research by yourself about Qoran and the Arabic language . Look at the whole picture, all the context and forget what others or us say about it. Then make up your mind, accept it or throw it aside and move on.The brothers and sisters here are not defending Qoran or enforcing their views, they are trying to help you sincerely. You do not have to take any view that is not making sense to you. You need to verify and check all information anyway.
Best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace All.
Ju5 is right. He understands Qoran his way. After all as far as he is concerned, no one here has answered with satisfaction his queries about the contradictory Qoran.
Remember sex with slaves ?
As far as Qoran is concerned this is allowed , Killing innocent kafirs is allowed and so forth...
Muslims make the kafirs pay Jizyah, Muslims are ... according to Qoran.
What is it with you lot insisting on your ways ?
To me the brother seems intelligent enough to find out for himself. If he is sincere enough, then give him time to analyse and study or leave Qoran.
After all this time, since last June to be precise, we are trying but failed .
Brother Ju5, personally I think you need to do more study and research by yourself about Qoran and the Arabic language . Look at the whole picture, all the context and forget what others or us say about it. Then make up your mind, accept it or throw it aside and move on.The brothers and sisters here are not defending Qoran or enforcing their views, they are trying to help you sincerely. You do not have to take any view that is not making sense to you. You need to verify and check all information anyway.
Best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Wait where is in the Quran does it say that? And also check my previous post on this topic involving Sura 9.
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Brother Sardar.
Read my post properly. It is according to those who want Qoran to say these things. I know differently.
Of course Qoran does not say theses things according to my study of the book.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Brother Sardar.
Read my post properly. It is according to those who want Qoran to say these things. I know differently.
Of course Qoran does not say theses things according to my study of the book.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Oh my mistake. I apologize dear brother.
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My respect for the brothers who keep on trying to make somebody use his brains despite himself. They deserve a medal for patience.
When we see so much deviousness and dirty dealing, it is very hard to keep composure and keep on writing. Of course, the patient are wise there may be others reading who are not crooked and devious and they may be welcome reading what our patient brothers are writing.
Salaam
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My respect for the brothers who keep on trying to make somebody use his brains despite himself. They deserve a medal for patience.
When we see so much deviousness and dirty dealing, it is very hard to keep composure and keep on writing. Of course, the patient are wise there may be others reading who are not crooked and devious and they may be welcome reading what our patient brothers are writing.
Salaam
I am going to be honest, i lost the track of this discussion and unfortunately it heated and also did Ju5 called Wakas a liar or something? That's a very bold claim. I have not seen Wakas lie before. Let us hear what Wakas has to say about this.
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My respect for the brothers who keep on trying to make somebody use his brains despite himself. They deserve a medal for patience.
When we see so much deviousness and dirty dealing, it is very hard to keep composure and keep on writing. Of course, the patient are wise there may be others reading who are not crooked and devious and they may be welcome reading what our patient brothers are writing.
Salaam
Yes i sadly saw that happened.
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Peace The Sardar, I do think Ju5 or jew5 has an agenda and is attacking Islam.
I've seen it too many times. An intelligent person has questions about the deen
but the hate comes seething through. Ju5 or jew5 does not respect or want
answers he only wants to confound! He is intelligent enough to know that humans
misunderstand, mistranslate, have a bias, or have an agenda. The believer takes
the best.3918
Who listen to speech and follow the best of it. Those are the ones Allah has guided,
and those are people of understanding.My respect for the brothers who keep on trying to make somebody use his brains despite himself. They deserve a medal for patience.
Peace huruf I think those brothers are wasting their time.
peace
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Peace The Sardar, I do think Ju5 or jew5 has an agenda and is attacking Islam.
I've seen it too many times. An intelligent person has questions about the deen
but the hate comes seething through. Ju5 or jew5 does not respect or want
answers he only wants to confound! He is intelligent enough to know that humans
misunderstand, mistranslate, have a bias, or have an agenda. The believer takes
the best.3918
Who listen to speech and follow the best of it. Those are the ones Allah has guided,
and those are people of understanding.Peace huruf I think those brothers are wasting their time.
peace
Well still we should try our best to be reasonable & calm dear brother.
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Peace huruf I think those brothers are wasting their time.
peace
Agreed
all his question are stereotyped missionary designed .same old stuff -
Agreed
all his question are stereotyped missionary designed .same old stuffWhat missionary designed?
