Marriage & Divorce

MashaAllah, Alhamdulilah how our minds can be opened. Its so easy to write people off, but everone of us can learn and improve whatever or whoever we are. I think we start learning the moment we learn to take our first breath, and keep learning to the grave. handshake Sorry if I was a bit harsh in my post to you to D

We were married under 'wahabi shariah' according to his country then then the certificate registered through my embassy , unfortunately i think in such circumstance, the divorce only can be actioned from there (plus with the divorce rules here you have to be married 2years before you can start divorce proceedings anyway). If I get something offical there I can present it to the BD&M office here, inshaAllah. Judges there consider a text message valid, legal divorce, I just hope he will inform the authorities & provide this to me (and I can't force this -when he won't even answer the phone or have any contact with me now). I don't think any lawyer here will have much authority over there - nor do I have the money to go chasing this up. In terms of any dowry or support, if he doesn't want me, I don't really want it, its not worth fighting for - I'm going to have to write it off to experience! I have kept the text message as proof though. Thanks for your replies. I was so messed up the first morning I posted, I've really felt encouraged by some of the posts on this blog. Getting my head together and getting over the shock. Its so surreal - I've read about things like this, I didn't think it would actually happen, not him, not us!

.......In fact the Holy Quran allows a man/woman to beat his/her; wife/husband when necessary, ..... IT'S AN UTTER TRAGEDY THAT SOME PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THIS MISINTERPRETATION FALSEHOOD! '(

When I was a little both of my parents were always busy with their jobs and to tell the truth it had bad impact on me and my sister because we did not really have a role model at home who can nurture us while growing up and listen to our problems. We spent most of our times at home with our servant therefore we were not very close to our parents until recently. In my opinion, it is very important at least for one of the parents to be able to spend much of their times at home with her/his (Most preferably the mother) children so they will have better upbringing and feel closer to the family. I would say that even if your mother was not working, there would be a high probability that you would end in the same situation. Work helps organize time and a working mother would benefit from each moment. I saw many women, family and friends, who do not work, but still do not spend half as much time with their kids as would a working woman with her kids. Besides, a working woman has the tendancy to a feeling of guilt for being away, so she would do her best to compensate by giving up many activities that would keep her away from the kids. An interesting study in the paediatric section of the Khartoum hospital on children domestic accidents (in 1980) found that 100% of the kids' mothers were not working and 90% were illeterate (so they were not even busy reading when those accidents took place).

Peace aly-sam, Thank you elke..I too believe that God would want whats best for the child...however where is that stated? See I am dealing with someone who believes if Islam says so then it must be so. And so I need to know how to counter-argue with him (if necessary) as it seems clearly stated in the Quran that father has child custody after age 2. I believe the same, however in a perfect situation (not the divorce, but parenting) then I believe in 2233. I think its obvious that if the father is not a provider and if its better with the mother then it should go to the mother. Its a general circumstance IMO. If the dad is going to beat the kid, why keep the kid with the dad? Also, if you put together what the Quran says on various aspects, that would be the conclusion in the matter, at least for me. Peace

Oh dear. If it's all the same, I'll pray for you as well, to find the love and mercy in your heart to try to repair your marriage. Part of being a loving and kind spouse is to encourage not discourage your spouse from fulfilling their faith. Insisting that he advertise his Islamic-ness (yes I know I made up a word) is pretty counter to that point. Deciding that he will always or never is a death sentence in a relationship. You cannot know what he will always or never do. You are not God, and can not see his life laid out before him. Don't try to do God's job for him, he's much much better at it than you are. Accept the here and now, and remember that your life and your husband's are ultimately in God's hands. Love him and be kind to him. Live your life as an example of the things that are beautiful about Islam, and it's possible that, in time, he will grow more comfortable with his faith. I have known my share of Portuguese people who have difficulty maintaining their Catholicism; but would never DARE voice their discomfort or concerns with their families as their grandmothers would likely have apopleptic fits. Be there for him, be his partner and his guide. Introduce him to people who teach him about Islam in the very best way possible. As he grows comfortable in Islam, he might chose to "come out of the closet" so to speak. In Islam, I read, divorce is the most hated of the things that are allowed. Perhaps to you a Nikkah is simply a license to "date," but to me, my Nikkah was my wedding, and it carries all the responsibilities and priviledges that came with it. Don't divorce a man who needs love and support in his faith and his life now more than ever because you don't like that he is not as vocal about being Muslim as you would like. If anything, Humility is a Christian virtue...and a Muslim one. Luke 189-14 9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others 10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.' 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

A) Is that not exactly what you are saying, tales of the ancients? B) Explain?

With the issue of marriage, just for arguments sake, even if the verse being discussed does say believing men can marry women from the people of the book, there is no prohibition for believing women to marry men from the people of the book...or is there? Apologies if this has already been discussed earlier in a different way. Salaam Twilight It has! To summarize the situation to you, the differing opinions are Yes, you are right, by logic (I agree with you) No, because the verse mentions female mu7san and female mu'min, but does not mention the male (to which I disagree, because the address is to both genders, and we have examples of similar verses where "women/wives" can also include men/husbands). Even if this opinion (no. 2) is valid, going back to point no. 1, we can still presume that this does not mean women are not allowed. And that's how all the discussion of linguistics and grammar started....and went OT

an article by Oliver Ruebenacker Some have claimed that the permission to have intercourse with slaves has been given in the Qur'an itself. I know that this is the classical opinion, but the point is that I am convinced it is wrong. It derives from a misinterpretation of the term "those who your right hand possesses" ("milk al-yamin" or "ma malakat aymanukum&quot, which traditionalists consider to mean slaves. However, they are unable to explain some peculiarities which result from this interpretation. First of all, the term appears in several places in the Qur'an and every time it appears in the context of marriage or intimacy. It is never used in any of the numerous other places where the Qur'an mentions slaves. Traditionalists can not explain this selectivity. Second, for some odd reason, traditionalists assume that the term only applies if the master is male and the slave is female, something for which they have no explanation either. Third, they are unable to explain what is the significance of the right hand. Some argue that the right hand signifies that it is a rightfully owned slave - but fail to explain opposed to what Maybe an unrightfully possessed slave? Should we really believe that God the Praised and Most High is explaining to us the difference between a rightfully owned slave and a wrongly owned slave? As Muhammad Asad and Mohammad Shahrour point out, the meaning of milk al-yamin ("those your right hand possesses&quot is different. It becomes clear if we realize that the right hand signifies oath. Oaths are not exchanged between master and slave, but between two free people. If we read the Qur'an with this in mind, we immediately realize that milk al-yamin is an alternative to full marriage A relationship that can be formed instead of full marriage, divorced like full marriage, and that allows intimacy like full marriage. This sounds very surprising to those who hear it for the first time, but in fact, it is nothing new, but rather something which has always existed in the Muslim world, from the time of the Prophet (peace be with him) until today. There are two types of marriages (nikkah) The full marriage (zawaj) and the lesser marriage (milk al-yamin). Milk al-yamin is simply any nikkah that is not a zawaj, such as, for example, the common law marriage (nikkah urfi) or the temporary marriage (nikkah mutah) or the traveller marriage (nikkah misyar). The fact that there are forms of marriage (nikkah) which are not full marriage (zawaj) is accepted by classical scholars, so we are not inventing anything new here. Rather the only new thing is that we realize that those lesser marriages are mentioned in the Qur'an as milk al-yamin, and that milk al-yamin are therefore not slaves. This sounds interesting, i have been thinking on the same lines for a while. If we see the verses regarding relationship, it is surprising that in a number of them , the word Nikah is not used, but paying ujoors in fair relationships is stressed , signifying that there are other kind of legalised sexual relationships, off which Nikah is one kind. This was the primary reason for me to start the Mutta thread down below, but I got distracted and bogged down in other issues, and hence is still pending. siki

Peace a muslim does not mean a good person. a muslim means a submitter to God the criteria for being a submitter to God encompasses more than being a good person. Peace Boost, I partly agree with your above remark about the meaning of the word 'muslim'. It does also mean submitter to God/Allah/the Great Force/Almighty (monotheism), but because the word 'muslim' is derived from it's root word 'salam', which means 'peace', it therefore also refers to a person who submits him-/herself to peace/tranquillity. So we basically can say that 'muslim' means 'submitter to One God/Allah and to peace/love'. Just my two cents.

For the benefit of Urdu speaking/understanding friends; http//haqeeqat.org.pk/paker/04/slides/1.html

For me these are hypocrites. No, I wont let my kids marry hypocrites, and they will not want to. Salaam Rumi I agree with your post. This is in line with my first post on this thread where I asked about the definition of a believer, not just who is mushrik or who is a person of the book. As I said, we cannot generalize. Each case is to be taken individually. I personally know non believers who are otherwise muslims, but would only admit that within their safe circles (of which I am one for some). I wont allow my daughter/son to marry into them, although they are officially muslims, and might be known by the majority as muslims. This is an example of what I mean by taking cases individually. I agree. With regards to your experiences of non-believers, it sounds like Quran 28 "Of the people there are some who say "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe." and Quran 29 "Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!" There is no way to know for sure.. Even on an individual basis. Hypothetically from your experience, if you weren't part of their inner circle, these people would seem Muslim, correct? I guess this is where trust, belief and faith in ones future partner comes in, as a parent, even more so, you'll have to take their word. As long as to the best of your knowledge, the person fits the Qurans criteria, its the best anyone can do. Whether he is or is not a believer or a person of the book, it's another story. So, personal question to the thread starter, is this Sikh guy really a believer??? Sikh's believe in One Universal God, but don't believe in heaven or hell, or the Quran. They're followers of Guru Nana, not our Prophet so I don't think they fall under believers. Can the Sikh guy really fall into the Quranic criterion's of marriage?

totally off-topic but i thought i'd share my traumatic experience i was watching "the inside story of COPS" and they had like the weirdest clips that came out of that show. Anyways there was this one call that came in and the police arrived. They found this guy stabbed in the hand and bleeding. They asked what happened and he said his mother stabbed him for violating a restaining order and coming near his wife. The police felt like there was more to the story it didn't really make sense for the guy's mom to stab her own son for trying to see his wife. It turns out the reason why they were separated was because the guy's mom was having a sexual relationship with his wife! so he flipped out on the wife and the wife filed a restraining order. and then he came in and found them getting busy again so his mother stabbed him. now tell me that isn't traumatizing i wish i never watched that show i'm all messed up now ( Is that show like "the bill"? and are you feelin' better now?

Wow. Quite recent too. Thanks for that.

Salam Winter_White, I sent you a personal message. group Honor

peace to you all i have not read all the posts, especially the long ones, as i find it difficult from dyslexia, so please excuse me if i am repeating what someone else has said. i have been seeking the truth on this matter too. there is a verse that might help us here 5101 O you who believe, do not ask about things which, if revealed to you, would harm you; and if you ask about them after the Qur'an has been sent down, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate. Does this mean that if we ask about unlawful sexual intercourse, then it will be made clear to us? i hope so. Also important, i feel, is this verse 37 He is the One who sent down to you the Scripture, from which there are governing verses; they are the essence of the Scripture; and others which are similar. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge, they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except the people of understanding. Does this mean that we should not try to interpret 'unlawful sexual intercourse' for ourselves? Also in consideration on this issue, i have taken this verse 2185 A month, marked by heat, in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. so it is a guide, a clarification of the guidance, and the criterion. so if the Qur'an is clarification of its own guidance, doesnt this mean that the answer to 'what is unlawful sexual intercourse' should be contained within it? Also is this verse 1854 And We have clarified in this Qur'an for the people from every example; but mankind was always most argumentative. So can we find any examples in the Qur'an from which we can gain clarification on this issue? finally let us remember these verses 20113 And it was such that We sent it down as an Arabic compilation, and We clarified in it some of the warnings, perhaps they will become aware or it will cause for them a remembrance. 20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur'an before its inspiration is completed to you, and say "My Lord, increase my knowledge." so let us not be hasty to come to conclusions before God has inspired us to understand, and let us pray to God 'My Lord, increase my knowledge' as we are instructed. that is where i have gotten on this issue so far.

oprah... to the least.

Peace Kevynbello, You are very right! Yet how can we not talk about something so sweet? message of LOVE is the divine wine! It should be handed over! peace,

I just want to make a general addition by saying that in psychology they've devised experiments in which people are asked about the impact of potential future events on their feelings and emotions, that range from seemingly very happy events like winning the lottery which people rate as very high, and very seemingly devastating events like separation from a partner or loved one. The truth is that when people who have gone through such events are asked about the actual impact 6 months down the track, the vast majority have returned to a baseline state where the event has not really had the anticipated or predicted impact. Thinking about separating from ones you love can create huge anxiety and this alone can keep one in abusive relationships. What will I do, where will I be, how will I live if I left that person is a huge hurdle. Unless you've experienced it for yourself then it's hard to really appreciate that your life will not collapse in a mess if you leave a destructive relationship. While I don't advocate quitting things on a whim, quitting destructive things is always good in the long run. Peace.

I think having that sort of eye doesn't mean you're not independent. Because they are just concerned for you. In just about every culture it's a great thing for people to get married you see the celebrations you see happiness even if it ain't for long ... so I think they just want you to be happy or I think they feel obliged to get you married or something / maybe they feel it's they're duty. Sometimes I wish I was married and divorced that way I can live away from home without a big deal made out of it, and choose freely without their concern of whom I wish to marry, but offcourse being divorced isn't very nice especially if there is children involved though in the long run it might be better.. so really depends on the situation Parents will always have an eye on you because at the end of the day you're their lil baby but I still think it's easier when your independent