Marriage & Divorce

Salam Mohammed (you do not need to use the 'shadda' as it is a factor of the sentence, not the word - see 1423), 651 is not for the Prophet. Though the verse begins by addressing him, it then goes on to incude everyone else (idha Talaqtum) - if you (all) have divorced. Had it been a verse specefic to the addressee it wuld have been (idha Talaqta). I used to have the same understanding as you, and to reconcile the various verses, I was led to believe the divorce is actually 4 months + the (idda) of 3 months = 7 months total. Upon further examination and reasoning, I found that 2226 is dealing not with divorce but with a different matter altogether - the case of a man who is refraining from his wife - and that the Quran gives him 4 months time limit to amend his ways (hence the word "fa3oo" - "to give in" - 499) - thus the ending of the verse "God is gorgiving, merciful" - since this is a deviant behaviour. But ih he will not amend his ways, then divorce becomes the reality 2227. I believe there is a mistake in the translation of for the word twice. The divorce is allowed twice. So, either they remain together equitably, or they part ways with goodness. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything you have given them unless you fear that they will not uphold the boundaries of God. So if you fear that they will not uphold the boundaries of God, then there is no sin upon them for what is given back. These are the boundaries of God so do not transgress them. And whoever shall transgress the boundaries of God, then these are the wicked. 2229 This tranlation of Maratan doesn't mean twice , Maratan = and and it mean ( a choice of the two ) or something similar and not twice. but it's a definition of the 2 rules , 1 . they remain together equitably or 2 . they part ways with goodness. the word twice is Maratayn and not Marattan , like this verse To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give. 2854 see also 3331 174 9126 9101

Thank you all for your replies and insight. May Allah bless you all for taking time to give advice to a fellow brother. I have decided wait and let things take their natural course. Thanks again.

TX, Welcome and all you need to heed on these forums is the forum rules to participate. Joe

Why keep looking for a law to tell you what your heart knows? Ask yourself this Who is bumsarama if all he is is a rule follower? You will live and die by that question. We look to God's laws because he knows what is best. But you are correct, I also am a rule follower, and I will live and die by it. I also pray I die among the righteous who follow the laws of God. I can understand your view, as I was a christian before, and am married to one, and many protestants seem to hate the idea of rigid laws, as they blame it on "the spirit of religion".

Salam, Am I reading about some discriminations against women here? Selam Would not even dream of it ;D Peace

Haven't seen where that's from since I'm on vacation (sporadic reading before the net goes) but that is truly a piece of work. It's from altmuslimah ? surprisingly so, since they usually tend to publish texts with a more progressive approach. The comments are almost more interesting than the text itself. The author herself has not responded to any of the questions or comments (most of which are quite critical of the text and its logical flaws), but her husband has been quite busy defending polygamy as a great thing and labelling anyone who doesn't subscribe to his version of hardcore sunni Islam misguided. hmm

peace, "annulled" implies "declared invalid" thus I assume one would have to prove it was invalid initially. I assume that's what you mean. Also, by "islam" I assume you mean as per Quran. You may find the following info helpful From Misconceptions-About-Islam.com The Quran does not state a specific legal age of marriage, however it does give a guideline and mentions situations and conditions that should be considered before marriage Determining mutual attraction/compatibility Ascertaining whether the potential partner is of similar beliefs/faith Discussion of and agreeing to the level of dower and other terms (if any) Understanding and mutual acceptance of marriage as a solemn/strong oath/contract If male, capable of providing for the family/household To have physically matured / post-puberty If the marriage is unsuccessful, one should also be capable of undertaking divorce proceedings, e.g. separation period, arbitration, discussion of settlement etc . From Quran434.com To understand the sequence of events, we must fully understand the divorce procedure according to The Quran 'cooling-off' period for those who swear away from their wives sexually, limited to 4 months * after this 4 month 'cooling-off' period, the options are revert to normal relations or divorce/talaq post-divorce interim/waiting period is 3 menstruation periods or 3 months, if pregnant it is until they deliver, if widowed it is 4 months and 10 days if no sex has taken place after marriage, then no interim period is required after divorce/talaq . Compensation may be due however if dower was agreed upon during post-divorce interim period, wife remains in the same house, and is compensated by way of maintenance during this period in the same living standard as the husband, each according to their means ** divorce is automatically retracted if sex between the couple takes place during the interim period *** if couple reconciles, then divorce/talaq may be retracted twice during interim-period. If divorced a third time it is final unless she marries another then they divorce, only then can original partners re-marry. If the couple fear they will not maintain God's bounds, then wife may give some dowry back to release herself if couple still wishes to follow through with the divorce/talaq after the end of the interim period and undergo final separation, then two witnesses are required to complete the process exceptions exist, in certain situations the onus is upon the person in the wrong to rectify the situation or initiate divorce/release, and it is an obligation upon the contract-breaking party to compensate the other As a side note, the last point is also mentioned in traditional Islamic law and sources, see M.Asad's note on 2229. This system would also protect the male if he were to marry a female who only did so for his money or the marital gift then she wished to end the marriage later, because since the contract-breaking party compensates the other partner, she would have to do so accordingly. Similarly, this would protect the female if she were to marry a male who only did so for lustful reasons then wished to end the marriage later, as he would then have to compensate her. *Also possibly provides a time limit due to a practice of the time in which husbands did not have sex with their wives but also did not divorce them, see 581-4, 334; i.e. leaving them in a state between marriage and divorce. Similar to what is implied by 4129. **And the same goes for the lesser situation of 'cooling-off' period. Obviously, the wife would not be removed from the home for the lesser serious 'cooling-off' period then brought back just for the post-divorce interim period. ***Inference from 2226 is that resumption of sexual relations is equated to reconciliation, thus no initiation of divorce. Hence, same proviso for post-divorce interim period, i.e. sex = reconciliation.

RA786, I haven't forgotten you and will reply to your points about inter-religious marriages soon insha'allah. But with some issues it takes longer for me to sort my thoughts and write them down, and I got a lot of things on my mind at the moment. peace

Peace, Respect. Keep steadfast sister and keep up the prayers. If you read Quran everyday, you'll keep strong, because that's what you need now. Stay strong and trust God. Don't trust humans and please do not give up. We're believers, we don't give up just because the pressure is too high, right? Trust God. Peace.

If you are living in unhygienic conditions it becomes even more important and the benefits are greater because it makes a man's penis more resistant to disease. Don't forget the tradition comes from people living in desert climates where it was difficult to wash regularly. The foreskin is a mucous membrane which in those conditions is likely to become smelly and infected. From my previous link How does it work? The head of the uncircumcised penis is a mucous membrane, just like the inside of the mouth or the vagina. The inner surface of the foreskin is rich in cells that viruses can target. When the foreskin is removed the skin keratinizes - hardens. The cells become more like ordinary skin, a much more effective barrier to infections. Essentially circumcision dramatically reduces the amount of the penis's surface area that is exposed to viruses and bacteria. There are other factors - uncircumcised men, if they don't regularly wash under the foreskin, will accumulate dirt and smegma. Viruses can incubate there. Tears in it are, I'm told, a common problem, especially during sex - these pose further infection risks. One friend who had a circumcision when he was 19, on medical advice, says that before the cut he used to "explode in a geyser of blood", often at the most embarrassing moments. (Now he tells me that putting on a condom is easier - and sex is more pleasurable.) http//www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/05/circumcicision-health-children

Selam Sister Sorry to hear what happened to you. I have heard of such cases many times and it has also happened to people close to me. A marrage is a contract which should be done according to the country you are residing in. This is simply because it protects your rights. I do not feel this mans intentions were sincere and his only wish was to marry your passport, unfortunatly. Also, let this be a warning to other readers who may still be in a position to turn back. As for not hearing from him in years, just count your blessings and hope you wont have to hear from him again. You should be pleased that he is out of your life. Hope everything works out for you. Peace

We're obviously on two different wavelengths. You should consider your words wisely, single women don't have husbands. Possibly you're retracting your statement. Both husband and wife need to consider their spouses rights. Single women have fathers who they can demand their rights from, such as the right to be recognized as a woman and what not.

Not coercing/pressuring/forcing a female CHILD into a life of misery by marrying her off to a much older MAN is denial of ?women?s? rights?! These are CHILDREN we are talking about, not women. A child, is a child, is a child, and marriage is not child?s play. And a homosexual, is a homosexual, is a homosexual. You are who you are. You understand that you will never find yourself physically attracted to a woman but feel that is your only option because it is what you believe God wants from you. In the process, you ruin your own and another person?s life because neither of you will ever know what it is to be in love with the one you are married to. Your lives together will be more like a business partnership, and eventually you will both end up being miserable and hating one another. One thing that you are not considering (because you know that you can never fall in love with a woman) and many fathers don?t seem to think about or perhaps even care about when they pressure or force their young daughter into an arranged marriage with a man the girl never spoke to (and sometimes never saw before the wedding) is her feelings/emotions. Young girls are attracted to young boys, and vice versa. Security and wealth mean nothing when one is not attracted to--and in the case of a much older man, repulsed by--the one they have to go to bed with every night. God gave humans the emotion of love for a reason, and love between a husband and wife is necessary for a peaceful and happy marriage. A father does not have the right to take something so precious away from his child. To do so is UN-Islamic. Rarely is there an arranged marriage where both husband and wife are happy. People will put on a happy face in front of others, but it?s a different picture behind closed doors, with much arguing, yelling, verbal and physical abuse. Many women never let on to just how unhappy they are. They know that leaving is not an option. Some hide is so well that their own husband and children don?t know. A few of my friends are from the Middle East. At a house party, one of the older women commented on how happy she was when her husband announced that he was taking on a second wife since it meant less time spent with him. There were nine women there. All the women there were in arranged marriages, either to cousins or other men their parents had chosen for them. Only one said she was happy because her husband didn?t mistreat her. All the others said they would have left/would leave their husbands if it were a choice but they all felt that leaving was not an option because of children, family ties, tradition, etc. Arranged marriages are rarely happy marriages and that makes them un-Islamic. All that other nonsense you wrote, well, it?s quite clear you don?t like females much so of course you don?t see things as they really are. You can write what you like but it doesn't make it true, especially since you are obviously not of sound mind. Perhaps it is a result of your struggling with denying yourself what you truly desire vs what society and what you think God wants from you. I believe that homosexuality is not a choice. I could tell one of my male cousins was from a very young age. Some of my best friends have been gay men. Luckily, they live in a society that is more accepting of them. I also believe that many verses in the Quran are mistranslated and misinterpreted, including those regarding homosexuals. You are who you are, and you cannot force yourself to be attracted to something you?re not programmed to. I'm sure God wants everyone to be happy. I can?t imagine God would care what you do behind closed doors as long as it?s consensual and you?re not hurting anyone. In my opinion, it is far worse for you to marry a woman under false pretenses. It would be unfair to her, and God does not like hypocrites. Be true to yourself, and also keep to yourself what you think is best for girls and women. You have no clue. What on earth are you even talking about? Do I call you a child? Well I can do that. We could also have you be declared a child by the law of the land. Does that make you a child? Then why do you declare a grown woman by biological factors a child?

I just read the link. It's a different pronunciation. In the other adha, the 'dh' is pronounced like the 'th' in 'the', 'this' and 'that'. It is a completely different word with different spelling in arabic.

Salaam Common knowedge that a couple is living as spouses doesn't that amount to making everyone witnesses to their relationship? Beside what is the difference when a believing couple decide not to have childern until they are either sure of their relationship or want to establish themselves first? Does their relationship amount to fornication too?? peace Farida my dear... there was a time when cavemen did not have material to record their commitment. Fornication is not relating to children... fornication is about having sex out of contractual agreement.

Yes islam allowed polygami and it was limited to 4. The purpose of it is too "upgrade" the torah law which is not forbid a man to have wives as many as he wish. After muhammad wives is 4 he is not allowed to have any more wife, even changed it. 33 52 It is not allowed to thee to take wives after this,a nor to change them for other wives,b though their beauty be pleasing to thee, except those whom thy right hand possesses.c And All?h is ever Watchful over all things.

Salams, I have not researched it, but dont' agree to forbidding Sunni and Shia couple marriages. However on the marrying a relative of someone you have been intimate with, it seems, though again no research, that it would create havoc in their family relationship and encourage all sorts of problems, i.e. desire between your spouses relative and yourself if you married. The thing about a husband or wife having some sort of sexual contact with their spouse's relative "by accident" sounds so sketchy to me. Must we believe this was a genuine mistake? Perhaps a hug or a light touch, but you would notice the difference in the body, scent all sorts of things about your wife, spouse or whoever. This one has a huge ICK factor. Salams

It isn't hereditary Of course it's not! I realize there are plenty of people out there who were brought up sunni and leave the customary instructions they were taught as a child. Even though my husband never considers himself sunni, I'm certain he's recognized as sunni just because his family is.

Peace be unto you, brother, I was 'fixed' after my only son. Children are a blessing, and the responsibility of raising them under God's guidance is a huge responsibility that should not be taken lightly. My son was conceived under deception; my girlfriend at the time took medicine to assist with fertility, then bedded me; I was not one to say 'no' to a beautiful woman giving me her charms. (Women have and always will be my kryptonite. I seek refuge in God from satan the deceiver!) I found this out after our son was born. I made sure I would not be used as a donor for a woman's licenstious ways ever again. I did not want children because I knew the responsibilities of raising a child were not one I should be undertaking; I was irresponsible, self-centered, and living in sin. Yet God in His Infinite Wisdom saw fit to bless me with the best young man I could ever ask for! bravo In that I give thanks and praise to my Most Gracious and Loving God! He knew what I needed more than I did, for if it was not for the responsibility of raising my son, I would not have sought guidance from God, nor found the righteous path in the Quran. pr Though we married and raised our son together for a short time, we were unequally yoked and divorced. Yet again, God knew what is best for all of us, and I am able to teach my son the path to God, while he receives lessons of humanism and carnal living from his mother. When he is an adult, he will make his own choice based off of what he has been taught by both of us. I pray God guides him as God guided me. And as well, I am in a loving relationship that teaches my son what a marriage/partnership should be all about between man and woman Love, respect, equality, and committment to each other and most especially, to God. Peace and blessings.

Peace Their examples are important. Disbelieving spouses may be an intrusion to the straight path, but if you're married to one it is not a reason to divorce them. You will see other examples of this in the quran. Joe