Quranic Divinity

Peace Ayani I thought beget means have offspring? Also by your logic wouldn't it make Adam the son of God as well? Peace be unto you, Not only by the same Christian logic, Adam would be a greater 'god' because he had neither a father nor a mother. This begotten shenannigans demean God to a humanistic level, especially with the Scriptural 'covering' of Mary with the Holy Ghost. It reduces the creation of Jesus to an animal sex act. Not befitting for our All Mighty God, able to create with a word. As well in Scriptures many Prophets and men of God are called sons of God. It's a metaphorical connotation, not literal. Please see 'many changes' in the Christianity/Judaism/Other thread for a complete refutation of the Christian doctrine of pagan syncretism. Peace and blessings.

This thread has devolved into immature name calling amidst other insults, thus the thread is locked. Let this be a warning, if another one is started dealing with the same, please keep it on topic and free of insults or the consequences will be more serious.

;D not after deleting 9-128 & 129 rotfl Okay...

I think recitation itself can become a healing to a person. It's all a matter of believe. So if one does not believe that it is a cure, even a slight of doubt, it couldn't become one. Same like medicines, therapy, or natural or traditional medicine. In my sunni tradition, i was taught that Verse 2255 (ayatul kursi) is a powerful recitation that can drive off evil or ghost. I came to believe it that way. So if i'm alone, when i felt like i'm not alone, this verse always came to my mind. And when recited (in arabic) it does give some strength and peace. I don't even know the meaning. Like brother OPF (no offense), since he had believed that recitation is not a healing/medicine, it will not become one to him. No matter how hard he recited, maybe an English recitation is the way for him. In healings, maybe he believed modern medicine is the cure, then it the modern medicine is the most suitable cure for him. I'm sure he heals faster that way. Sort of like that. ) Pure and sincere believe is the key. No doubts, even the slightest. Just like what we are taught that aspirins can cure headaches. Quranic verses, Biblical verses, recitations, medicine, therapy, doctors etc is just the supplement/amplifier to the inner self-healing/ strength. IMHO. God had taught us a couple method of healing and even inspired us. Depends on which is suitable for us, which is easier for our mind to accept it. And He also gives us clues about purification. It's better to be purified (ablution/ shower) to better get close to Him. This verse kinda sets our mind that "If i purify myself this way i'll become clean because God says so.". And thus it's clean. We will feel that it is easier for our heart to reach God. Kinda like self hypnosis things. Hope this helps. ) Peace I agree entirely with what you wrote, belief is the #1 step to healing ) Everyone has their own subconscious reference points for what works and what doesn't. It is often easier to go by those established reference points in our heads than to establish new ones (e.g. me suddenly believing in the power of vibrational healing) and then going through the same process of healing anyway. Regardless, it is a good idea to keep an open mind for anything that will help. The more reinforcement you have the faster you will heal, just like the physical case where pushing something harder will make it go faster. Your sentiments on inner healing are entirely correct. It has been proven time and time again that without belief, not even aspirin will heal your headaches. No one except GOD can create a surah like one in the Quran ......... EVER. Not even the likes of "Ikhlas" or "Nasr" or "Asr" ...... none!! and HE will show you and me why on the Day we stand in front of HIM to be judged. Be careful where you go with that line of thinking. It is a step removed from blind worship. Now if you have facts to prove this statement true then feel free to share them but don't throw this blanket out and expect people to take it hook, line and sinker. There is enough fishing in this world already. Telling us we'll have proof after death is not good enough. Where is the responsibility gone? To some extent, everyone has a concept of their holy book's infallibility. Again, a very dangerous line of thought. Convictions are not truth and they never will be. Pathological thinking must die if we are to get anywhere - if you start off with the concept of the Quran/Bible/Harry Potter as a holy book you will slowly find intricate patterns etched into the book confirming its holyness. Lying to ourselves will go nowhere.

Muslims claim to know the time, place, and occasion that each verse was revealed in? This is news to me - I thought there was only a small minority of verses where this detail was known. Is there a book which gives this detail?

The quran confirms this, it acknowledges that it is Jesus who is going to save the world. peace anders, your proof on the above claim please. the last time i heard is that God is the savior of mankind. the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, other named & unnamed prophets and/or messengers & the God of all muslims and mumins. peace all. O0 ramon O0

The intellect without a doubt. I love Islam, and I believe in the Quran but every day when I read the Quran I see a very human voice not a voice of God.

Yes, that is correct. You can read more on this here http//www.amazon.com/Changing-Faces-Jesus-Geza-Vermes/dp/0140265244/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222789214&sr=1-6 http//www.amazon.com/Jesus-Empire-Kingdom-World-Disorder/dp/080063490X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222789173&sr=1-1 http//www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Legacy-Bloodline-Conspiracy-Revelations/dp/1578634032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222789148&sr=1-1 http//www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jesus-Unlocking-Christianity/dp/014025773X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222789132&sr=1-2 http//www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jew-Historians-Reading-Gospels/dp/0800614437/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222789214&sr=1-3

Well well, I never even considered mentioning the reality of channeling on forums such as this. A long bridge to far I think. But for those who dare venturing out of the quranic domain The quotes mention 'the law of confusion'. This is another name for 'the law of free will'. It is the most fundamental law that was formulated even before creation of our universe and designed to allow for maximum experimental creativity on the time line of evolution. The quotes are interesting indeed because it explains that no perfect word of god was meant to ever reach humanity for the very simple reason that it would do away with the highest law of all in our universe, the law of free will. This law dictates that there must always be confusion to allow humans space to maneuver/interpret. Hence the divine requirement for tampering, by both Gabrielic sound-a-likes and humans. This also explains the existence of the so called satanic verses. Interesting reading though. First trumpet that announces the new era a new world and a new heaven. For the rest, this channeling of The Law Of One by the entity Ra is the first that became really popular some 30 years ago due to its apparent high quality. Since then channeling has become as common as a rainy day, so to speak. Nowadays communication with 'the heavens' in various degrees of scope, clarity and reliability are a fact of life for millions of people, their numbers fast growing. Welcome new era! Some are of astounding precision, as proven by the passing of time and the materialization of events predicted. The quotes offer an interesting view on monotheism introduced too early by 'know it all's' from heaven in order to speed up our evolution, but with disastrous consequences as we were not yet ready to correctly absorb such 'advanced' ideas, resulting in untold suffering and wars over that which had become a scarce 'commodity' gods. These 'know it all'' gods from the sky would nowadays be identified as advanced aliens and be accused of tampering with our genetics. Soon to appear again.

Please read more in depth about Newton and his later approach to seeking truth. The fact that what I say about Newton's sources contradicts mass media and fraudulent history telling does not make it false. Why don't you just say you did not come across this info in the official sources? Then I could have simply replied that's why these lodges are called secret. Anyway, this is not an important issue. I just thought it was so typical and illogical to assume that great western minds MUST have had the quran as their source. Really! Science and knowledge in general was once very advanced and has always been guarded by secret lodges and available to the shadowy powers that rule the world affairs from behind the scenes, denying the sheeple access to it. Yes, this contradicts official history....and I praudly admit it. I see lot of contradictions in your view so I am not going to address it you check that yourself. Easy to say, more difficult to show. I assume you mean contradiction with fraudulent official history. Are You! Replacing Bush? He and his likes may be behind the strategy to provoke muslims to blow themselves up in the midst of civilians including children, it really is those deluded ones who choose to do it. To mention just one example. The issues here are taking personal responsibility and the response from within the muslim community/family. Or rather the absence of them. You are in denial. You are driven by mass media. Are you referring to the sources of your romantic and incomplete Newton history? ) If you must know, I do not read news papers nor do I listen/watch radio and tv. The little I do get to see always makes me marvel at the fact that massive brain washing is so blatantly obvious, yet goes unnoticed by the sheeple. When I travel in foreign cultures I do follow the media occasionally, as an antidote and means to better understand the 'foreign sheeple'.

Peace Ay The word for John is Yuhanna. Yahya comes from haya. Haya means shyness modesty.

...My personal testimony includes a Catholic upbringing, then a straying into atheism, then back to Catholicism, then on over to Evangelic Christianity, to Judeo/Noachidism, then over into Calvinistic Christianity, back on to Catholicism, then, thanks be to God, Islam. Good Lord, did you go for the world record religion hopping? o You left one option out. Being trapped in this endless series of horizontal movements you never considered the only way out, a vertical movement? The escape from religionism, period? That's what it takes to be a true truth seeker. Stand 'naked', for the truth will not come to those who already chose one. Once you get that, you are finally free to see the great wisdom in the many religions, as well as their danger. This danger being idolatry. Anything other than the Living Word is an idol. Be it a tree, statue, stone or book. That's because all of these things are things and require the intellect for interpretation. The intellect however is the very 'thing' itself that veils the Living Word which is God. As for Edip, he is doing a good job as a religious psychosis buster, but I took liberty in busting him for a teaser. ??? See my article http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/7268/1240/

Salam curious cat. This allegation of tampering/burning keeps coming up. The allegation arises out of ignorance of Arabic. The question belies a colossal misunderstanding of Arabic words. The term Quran means that which spoken by Allah. Qara'a/Iqra/Quran. It is not possible to tamper with what comes out of my mouth, how can anyone tamper with what comes out of Allah? How is it possible to tamper with that, that a man cannot touch or exert control over? Please examine your question. Rephrasing your question, you are asking how do you know the words that issued out of Allah have not been tampered with. The very concept is erroneous. Allah protects his word. Allah is mighty wise.

Jesus as the Word of GOD is the message from GOD. What is the difference between an annointed messenger and a warner, messenger like Mohammad?

Yeah, I generally view that as a reason to follow my own intelligence. And the Quran generally is that, intelligence written down, to be learned from. Truth and consequence, seen through the eyes of an angel.

LOL!! ayani I just now checked this thread- I understand the small now. LOL!! Sometime after I posted I was banned from the forum for a while.

I'm trying to imagine if it is true. Who knows maybe she's channeling the right person/soul. ) Of course it's not his work. It was compiled ways after his death. And it's not even written by one person. Only from oral and collections of writings. Am i right on that? He only verbally delivers Quran to his followers. That's what hadiths says though. Maybe you could correct me on that? If she is deluded, how come she can come up with a lot of information and different personalities? I'm haven't seen a channeler in person so i have no idea. So i just studied from a lot of other channelers information and see what other says about their behavior. So far i could say this kind of information came from other entity is true. But only to some extent, it maybe twisted by other beings. So i don't want to say she's entirely correct. Just an eye opener. I like to see what other people thinks about Quran and Islam. These things is not worth proving. But worth to be taken as a thought. Peace

Almighty God preserved the Quran Mathematically. There is no need to tamper with it. Taking out or moving any verses destroys many of the twelve thousand plus digit numbers that are multiples of 19. All of the very long numbers are derived from putting every verse in order along with using Sura numbers, numbers of verses, and sums of verses in various combinations. The criteria for these numbers can be observed here http//www.masjidtucson.org/quran/appendices/appendix1.html I realize these numbers are based on verses 128 and 129 of Sura 9 being omitted. That is for another debate. One number I am particularly fond of is a 13038 digit number (not included in the link above) which includes Sura number, number of verses, the verses in order and assigns a zero for the Basmalah, accounting for every single verse in the Quran. I was able to fit this number on an 11x17 inch sheet of paper. I've color coded the Sura number and Basmalah in red, the number of verses is in blue. See attachement. Peace and God Bless

Isn't alcohol not allowed in Islam? Then what about the good? "good nourishment" If something is both good and bad shouldn't it be a personal choice? One should look at the issue behind alcohol and Islam. Its not a clear cut case, even though we have Quran facists here trying to make out it is such.

Thank you.